stroker kits on this engine are a waste (save the Toda thread)

[themadscientist]

Originally Posted by Hyper4mance2k

Schizophrenia and multiple personality disorder are completely different mental illnesses. Linking the two is like saying everyone with a cold has swine flu.

Swine flu is so retro. It's all about MERS now.

As far as throwing around low pressure terms like "value" and "waste" it's important to clarify that is greatly dependant on the perspective of the person funding whatever is being done. If the perceived utility of the thing is greater than the cost and other factors from the customers point of view than there is value no matter what anyone else thinks including me or Frenchie. This why I was careful to couch my statements in those terms.

Speaking in more atomically dense terms, using terms like "cost effective" "less labor intensive" "more accessible" etc, the stroker kit route is, without argument, the wrong path. It has a terrible return on investment from a HP to dollar or yen or euro ratio compared to forced induction, it's ridiculously expensive and it's a significant amount of work with an non-competetive return. These are the reasons I pound on it so much.

As far as the more emotional terms, that's not really arguable. If after all that money spent and the car only being a little big faster, if the customer still feels good about it, it's successful. Case in point, my BRZ. It's not fast. I was consulting a local shop yesterday about getting my GT-R stripped down and put into the body shop to get sorted out. It's going to cost a significant amount of cash, but I love that car and I want it rust free, straight and strong as it can be. On the drive home I was lamenting my BRZ purchase thinking it was dumb and impulsive to buy the BRZ when that money could have been used to repair my Skyline.

As I rounded the corner driving the wife's Mini and pulled in front of the house, though, the minute I saw that WRB BRZ sitting there covered in a light mist of raindrops waiting patiently to take me to work this morning at 100mph with the comfy leather and alcantara seats and pretty good six speaker stereo I forgot all about that. THAT is utility and there is perceived VALUE. They are real things, but they are not seen or felt by everyone because it is filtered through my personal needs, priorities and desires. Even before the turbo shit the bed, that GT-R was a straight pain in the ass to drive and only really enjoyable at full rip on the expressway. Coilovers and a solid hub triple plate clutch in town sucks!

For that reason, I grant the people with the emotional need to have it, their reasons. Similarly, as I said on post one, if there is some external requirement for an all-motor solution and the build targets and most importantly, achieves that, fine. I also metioned and mention again, if this is the foundational step for a no-holds-barred engine that will be packing a larger turbo then it is a different animal and not really what I'm talking about.

I'm surprised to see this develop into a really interesting conversation. Not so many virgin who just saw his first pair of boobs fanboy stuff in the later pages and a hell of a lot more technical considered discussion. Very cool.

[HaDDeS]

Originally Posted by celek

The HKS cams are also stated to require the HKS pistons and the higher capacity / stroker kit. People keep in mind you can not just toss these in a stock motor as I think the valves will make contact with the pistons.

Have we covered that already?

I did insist on the necessity to use all the parts together. There indeed problems of clearances if you put those pistons with other rods and crank ... that will be , a disaster

Of course you can buy, say ... the crank, but then you have to do your maths to make sure whatever rods / pistons you going to marry it with will work ...

I will have more infos on the TODA kit soon, and also the RUNDUCE one, will post everything here

[GT86_PRAGUE]

Originally Posted by HaDDeS

I did insist on the necessity to use all the parts together. There indeed problems of clearances if you put those pistons with other rods and crank ... that will be , a disaster

Of course you can buy, say ... the crank, but then you have to do your maths to make sure whatever rods / pistons you going to marry it with will work ...

I will have more infos on the TODA kit soon, and also the RUNDUCE one, will post everything here

Very interested in TODA kit.

[celek]

Originally Posted by HaDDeS

I did insist on the necessity to use all the parts together. There indeed problems of clearances if you put those pistons with other rods and crank ... that will be , a disaster

Of course you can buy, say ... the crank, but then you have to do your maths to make sure whatever rods / pistons you going to marry it with will work ...

I will have more infos on the TODA kit soon, and also the RUNDUCE one, will post everything here

This is what I did, all the maths

HKS crank
Custom pistons and custom rods.

The pistons have enough clearance for a +2mm over valve and +3mm lift. Although no cam exists to support that lift as of yet I have planned for the future.

[DGM86]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Not for a lot of people it would seem.

Most people who buy this car are probably more interested in the looks and driving experience. If going fast is what I personally cared about most, I would have bought a Mustang GT for the same price that I paid for my BRZ. Sooo much cheaper to alleviate the handling issues with the Mustang than it is to bump the BRZ up to those power levels

But my BRZ is my DD, and the 3 seconds of WOT I could get in a Mustang before I might get arrested is great and all, but bombing the twisties and on/off ramps while still somehow managing 30 mpg average is way more fun. More power is not needed unless you want to track the car.

But this is a thread about strokers... and I say stroke away if you got the money to burn. Everyone always thinks they can spend your money better than you can.

[andrew4554]

dominic torreto says nos, turbo and 2zj. I'm going to believe his car logic, because he is the car god of the universe.

[mav1178]

I just want to post in this thread because I enjoy the word "stroker"

[themadscientist]

It is a fun word.

[themadscientist]

Originally Posted by themadscientist

I also metioned and mention again, if this is the foundational step for a no-holds-barred engine that will be packing a larger turbo then it is a different animal and not really what I'm talking about.

And that is what the GT-R turned into. It will be a stroker 2.8 using this kit.

http://www.spoolimports.com/spool-st...b28-stoker-kit



The shop finally had a slot to get the car in yesterday.
That should help spin up the T78 nicely.

[-Phil]

On this Platform. When referring to a stroker build on a FA20 i would always and probably will refer to @celek for any and all information on the motor

[justatroll]

Originally Posted by stugray

Yes - the ECU has a target cam angle. The control system tries to keep the angle as close to the target as possible. Does this system typically run within 1 degree of target cam phase angle?



Quite serious. The cam sensor senses the controlled side of the cam (opposite side from cam gear). The side that floats.
The control system modulates the system to move floating side of the cam to the target angle.
If you believe that the system can control to within 1 degree than it clearly can remove one degree of difference between the two cams just as it will compensate for (slightly) stretched chains.

And back on topic:

Increasing the engine stroke not only gives more torque due to increased displacement, but it also increases the lever arm length of the rod pushing on the crank.
So there is another factor that increases overall hp by stroking.
There is yet another factor of increased maximum piston velocity (harder on wrist pins) that affects VE.

Actually @D K


You never answered this question.
Now I am curious: Can these engines control the cam position to within 1 degree or not?
If the answer is YES, then please explain WHY the engine cannot compensate for thicker headgaskets (OR chain stretch) with the stock tune.


If the answer is NO, then obviously having the cams out of phase by one degree is a normal operating condition anyway.