Fortune Auto / Swift / Hyperco choice

[gkubed]

Hi guys, I'm likely to purchase a set of Fortune Auto 500 Coilovers. Disregarding spring rates, I'm wondering if it's worth the extra money to upgrade to Swift or Hyperco springs. Both of them are a $350 upgrade on top of the cost of the coilover.

I'm no expert on springs, so I'd like to know if anyone had insight as to whether or not there's a $350 difference between the two products.

Notes:
Fortune Auto seems to have a warranty that covers the springs for 1 year (the actual coilovers are covered for five years).
I emailed FA who said their springs are "a silicone chrome alloy spring that we get made overseas".
The Hyperco springs may fall under their lifetime warranty.
Swift springs are generally lighter
In one ancient test, Swift springs had more consistent rates across all tested springs (source)
From what I've read, there's no real bad option.

Relevant info if needed:
I drive a bone stock FR-S, and when I install these coilovers I will also install SPL LCAs and TWS T66-F in 18x9.5 +45 with 265/35/18 Michelin PSS. I don't want to slam my car. I just want everything to fit.

Any thoughts/helpful threads out there I may have missed?

Thanks

[OkieSnuffBox]

Hyperco/Eibach > all other spring choices.

If you care to spend about 15-20 mins on Google and doing some reading, Hyperco/Eibach are the only spring manufacturers that consistently meet their specs.

It's kind of ridiculous that Swift springs are not only more expensive than Hyperco/Eibach, but also a quantifiably worse choice.

[koukiboss]

Really? First time i've heard that. my new coilover setup is being built currently with swift springs 16k/14k. I will report back with feedback.

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Hyperco/Eibach > all other spring choices.

If you care to spend about 15-20 mins on Google and doing some reading, Hyperco/Eibach are the only spring manufacturers that consistently meet their specs.

It's kind of ridiculous that Swift springs are not only more expensive than Hyperco/Eibach, but also a quantifiably worse choice.

[Anal0g]

This guy claimed to have dynoed many springs including Swift, Hiperco, etc. and may be the insight you're looking for.

[gkubed]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Hyperco/Eibach > all other spring choices.

If you care to spend about 15-20 mins on Google and doing some reading, Hyperco/Eibach are the only spring manufacturers that consistently meet their specs.

It's kind of ridiculous that Swift springs are not only more expensive than Hyperco/Eibach, but also a quantifiably worse choice.

I had read on my own research that Swift is generally lighter, and that Swift is often off its mark for measurement. I hadn't read that Hyperco consistently meets their specs, though. By the way, in my application, Swift and Hyperco are the same price.

Originally Posted by Anal0g

This guy claimed to have dynoed many springs including Swift, Hiperco, etc. and may be the insight you're looking for.

It seems that Swift > Hyperco in terms of accuracy, but not by a massive amount (and in only one trial, so not a huge sample pool here), and that Swift > Hyperco as far as weight goes.

Judging by what I'm reading, I'll end up with Swift springs - though, if there's really no reason, I'd rather not throw $350 away.

Thanks for the input, guys.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by koukiboss

Really? First time i've heard that. my new coilover setup is being built currently with swift springs 16k/14k. I will report back with feedback.

And how will you know? Are you going to measure them in some way?

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Anal0g

This guy claimed to have dynoed many springs including Swift, Hiperco, etc. and may be the insight you're looking for.

This was Swift vs Megan, how is that relevant to Hyperco and Eibach?


Look at all high end coilovers, Penske/JRZ/MCS/AST, etc. All Eibach or Hyperco.

[NyC Zn6]

no regrets on my Swift upgrades for my coils

[OkieSnuffBox]

https://www.facebook.com/paul.yaw.50

Read up on this guy. Brian Hanchey of HVT has also tested this and found the same results.

[strat61caster]

I'd be happy with any of the main three, Eibach, Hyperco, Swift.

Swift is relatively new, I was using Eibach and Hyperco 10 years ago. Arguing between the three is pretty silly, if you care you'll compare all three on the relevant specs and the choice will become obvious they are all accurate enough unless you are prepared to invest in measuring each spring you get yourself (been there, done that). I've got Eibach on my car now and a pair of Hyperco's on the way, Swift doesn't make the spring I need right now but I'll probably try them in the future.

That thread from NAM is very old, and his data isn't very precise but it proves what low end springs give up for a price point and what you get spending the extra money. You can set up your own spring tester with a bathroom scale, some weights, spring clamps, calipers, and a bit of diligence and understanding that you're ghetto setup is going to have inconsistent data, but it would be enough to prove that your two 7k springs are actually 7k and not 6.5k and 7.3k, if you've got a press of some sort (drill press, hydraulic press, a shock dyno will do the trick as well as a big ol' vice) and a high capacity scale or load sensor all the better.

[Crusifix]

I had Swift Spec-R's on my 2014 Evo, and they were a very good and consistant spring. I have no negatives to say about them. But when/if I get a BRZ I will probably go with Eibach's.

[gkubed]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

This was Swift vs Megan, how is that relevant to Hyperco and Eibach?


Look at all high end coilovers, Penske/JRZ/MCS/AST, etc. All Eibach or Hyperco.

See this section at the bottom (bold mine):

I just started recording the numbers to show you the difference between the Swift spring and Megans. but I have tested almost every single spring out there. Even the most popular spring company like eibach is off the rate by at least 25lbs.

I've tested everything from Eibach (race springs), Vogtland, Tanabe, Tein. The only company that comes close to the swift springs in accuracy was a company called Hipercoil which was off by 15lbs. But then again had a bunch of coils like the Megan spring.

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

https://www.facebook.com/paul.yaw.50

Read up on this guy. Brian Hanchey of HVT has also tested this and found the same results.

All that says is that Indy cars all use Eibach or Hypercos - and even then I'm sure those aren't remotely comparable to what we'd put under our cars. Swift may not even make springs of that variety. I want to be careful not to blanket-dismiss or praise a spring manufacturer based on a product I won't be using (Indy car springs). Either way, thanks for the input.

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I'd be happy with any of the main three, Eibach, Hyperco, Swift.

Swift is relatively new, I was using Eibach and Hyperco 10 years ago. Arguing between the three is pretty silly, if you care you'll compare all three on the relevant specs and the choice will become obvious they are all accurate enough unless you are prepared to invest in measuring each spring you get yourself (been there, done that). I've got Eibach on my car now and a pair of Hyperco's on the way, Swift doesn't make the spring I need right now but I'll probably try them in the future.

That thread from NAM is very old, and his data isn't very precise but it proves what low end springs give up for a price point and what you get spending the extra money. You can set up your own spring tester with a bathroom scale, some weights, spring clamps, calipers, and a bit of diligence and understanding that you're ghetto setup is going to have inconsistent data, but it would be enough to prove that your two 7k springs are actually 7k and not 6.5k and 7.3k, if you've got a press of some sort (drill press, hydraulic press, a shock dyno will do the trick as well as a big ol' vice) and a high capacity scale or load sensor all the better.

You're right - first posted in 2008, last edited in 2010. I suppose spring manufacturing has changed a significant amount since then.

Well, for now, my personal verdict is we don't really have any idea.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by gkubed

See this section at the bottom (bold mine):

All that says is that Indy cars all use Eibach or Hypercos - and even then I'm sure those aren't remotely comparable to what we'd put under our cars. Swift may not even make springs of that variety. I want to be careful not to blanket-dismiss or praise a spring manufacturer based on a product I won't be using (Indy car springs). Either way, thanks for the input.

You're right - first posted in 2008, last edited in 2010. I suppose spring manufacturing has changed a significant amount since then.

Well, for now, my personal verdict is we don't really have any idea.

I would be very surprised if the Indy teams were ordering something not available out of Hyperco or Eibach's catalog that you or I couldn't order (maybe they make special orders with the springs not labeled or a spring that's right in the middle of two common rates, a 460# instead of a 450#, but nothing we couldn't get an equivalent of), but you're right, those aren't the typical ~60mm diameter 4"-8" springs that would go on a road car.

Not sure if you're being snarky about the spring manufacturing changing in the past 8 years, but I'd gamble it hasn't, at least not significantly. But company philosophies, engineering staff, manufacturing contracts, and quality control do change, sometimes on the order of months not years.

The thing I found most interesting is how proudly he (the NAM post you linked) touted the first 1" of travel, I know Eibach doesn't measure the first 20% or last 30% of travel when rating the spring, of course the spec doesn't line up when you don't actually measure the part the same way it was rated.

http://eibach.com/america/en/motorsp...sion-worksheet

All Eibach motorsport springs are tested between 20% and 70% of the spring’s total travel.
This spring rate can be measured easily using the following steps:

It'd be easy to say 'well that's crap then! since the first X inches isn't consistent! "

But if you actually take into account what's going on where it matters, that's the car sitting on the ground and the suspension moving through it's stroke, that's the important part. When I was looking at Eibach's, the stroke was ~4", and 7kg/mm or ~400 lbs/in is a typical stiff spring used on an 86.

So, the rear end of an 86 weighs about 600 lbs, the front ~775, instantly as soon as you set the car down you've compressed that spring anywhere from 1"-2" depending on the details and you're into the precise area of the eibach. After that you start looking at how much suspension travel you want and need and that'll drive the spring choice, given that the bottom 30% of the Eibach's ~4" travel is 1.2" you're looking at the wheel being able to compress 0.8"-2.8", again depending on the details before the spring starts to get stiffer as you head towards coil bind.

One of the reasons why Swift gets a ton of love is they advertise a much greater stroke length than Eibach and Hyperco (you actually have to email Hyperco to get theirs, but their response time is fantastic), iirc they get another 1/2" or more of travel out of the same size and stiffness spring. Along with a few glowing vendor and forum poster reviews (that really don't provide much data, like the guy you linked provided 4 data points that he could have easily made up).

The two questions about Swift become, is the available travel real? Well, make sure you're looking at Swift's 'usable stroke', not the total actual travel, they definitely recommend you don't go into coil binding territory, which makes me wonder about what happens when you surpass usable stroke, is a pothole going to permanently deform the spring? I don't know, maybe it's entirely paranoia, but it's not an unreasonable hypothesis that they're designing closer to the limits of the materials available to them and that's how they get greater stroke length than Hyperco and Eibach.

The more important question, as you look at the price difference, (after all $10 is FOUR In n Out cheeseburgers, times 4 springs, that's food for a whole race weekend!) is do you NEED the travel? What's the point of 5" of stroke available in the spring when your suspension bottoms out at 3"? Of course it's easier to just take the spring that has more travel then you need, eliminate coil bind as a potential issue altogether... but $80 man! (I'm seeing Eibach's at ~$60/ea, HyperCo at ~$70/ea, Swift @ ~$80+/ea)

For some, the choice is easy, $80 is nothing, a 'lets have McDonalds for date night honey not the local 4 star Steakhouse' decision at worst. Some realize their car will never see the track, they'll never bother to measure their own suspension travel, perform their own calculations or even notice the car understeers on left handers and oversteers on rights and will happily save $350 using whatever bargain springs come with a kit, or saving $200 on the low end Megan lowering springs over the Swift or TRD/Eibach lowering springs.

At least we have options, good ones at that.

[OkieSnuffBox]

^Great post. My point was I think the hype around Swift is "mad tyte JDM yo" like a lot of parts.

If they were a better spring at roughly the same price, the high-end manufacturers would use them and advertise their advantages. Period. While that's anecdotal, I feel confident in such a rudimentary explanation having been in manufacturing the last 10 years with 6 different companies.

As gkubed saying, we don't really know.

Again, HVT/MCS/JRZ/Ohlins, etc. They aren't using Swift springs.