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Old 12-15-2020, 08:43 AM   #1
SnoopDodd
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ABS/Traction Control issue

Started my car today and saw ABS + traction control lights on the dash (fairly sure it was from hitting a curb a couple nights before). Wheel alignment is off too, and no cruise control. Revs fine

Did an OBD2 Scan and these are the codes it spat out: https://ibb.co/sqBHRrT


Any advice about what the issue could be and what to do about it would be much appreciated cheers
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Old 12-15-2020, 04:27 PM   #2
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fix the alignment and check you didn't bend anything, the cel will be gone if you fix it
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Old 12-15-2020, 04:57 PM   #3
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Did i miss something? I saw no codes listed. Only that there are some.
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Old 12-15-2020, 05:20 PM   #4
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First, if you have a code, cruise control is disabled until the code is cleared, whether that's manually with a scantool or by the ECU after it determines the condition to not exist anymore. Now onto the codes:

C1231 Steering Wheel Angle Sensor - Faulty Operation
This is why your steering alignment is off. The sensor is either out of calibration or needs to be replaced.

The rest of them support something a little worse than that though: C146C and B2321 are electrical issues on a similar side of the car. Some digging shows the C146C to be an issue with the ABS motor relay system. The B code is more electrical stuff but I'm unsure if that circuit would be the same as the more vital control circuits ABS needs. Everything there points towards electrical issues, maybe a pinched or shorted wire. Have you been working on or cleaning the car recently, especially around the wiring harnesses on your driver's side? Could be pinched wires, a short, or just some wires that got tugged wrong and aren't making a good connection. I don't think we have any emergency systems to roll windows down after a crash, but they are tied in for door open/closed events so they're not going to be on a lowest of low priority "accessories" circuit like the door lamps.

I think your best starting point is to start checking fuses, one probably blew.
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Old 12-24-2020, 11:40 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by anticubus View Post
First, if you have a code, cruise control is disabled until the code is cleared, whether that's manually with a scantool or by the ECU after it determines the condition to not exist anymore. Now onto the codes:

C1231 Steering Wheel Angle Sensor - Faulty Operation
This is why your steering alignment is off. The sensor is either out of calibration or needs to be replaced.
His wheel alignment is off because he punted it into a curb. A steering angle sensor has no effect on alignment, it simply reads the angle of the steering wheel. His ABS is probably tripping balls because the steering angle sensor now disagrees with the yaw rate sensor, which are both necessary for the ABS/ESP to operate. One is telliong the ESP "We're turning!" and the other is saying "Nah we're going straight".

The pump relay open circuit code is fairly straight forwards: Pump Relay Open Circuit. No power getting to the abs pump motor, check fure/relay first, but after you've fixed the suspension geometry issue so the ESP can stop freaking out.

A more pressing concern is, if OP knows he punted the car into a curb, why is he asking us about his ABS and not having the damage fixed first? I mean what was the plan here? Bash it, if no lights come on, keep sending it lol. If lights come on, worry about the lights and not the fact that it was bashed into a curb? Fix obvious damage first, handle issues that aren't resolved after that.
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Old 12-24-2020, 02:11 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by RZNT4R View Post
His wheel alignment is off because he punted it into a curb. A steering angle sensor has no effect on alignment, it simply reads the angle of the steering wheel.
Love it when you all skip the part where I'm not talking about the physical damage, but what the codes mean and how they translate to what the driver is experiencing. Very obviously a sensor cannot affect steering position. What is clear is that a faulty angle sensor is a damaged part giving the wrong reading or a symptom of physical damage because the reading doesn't match the expected value given other sensors' readings.

Root cause analysis should be slow and steady. It doesn't matter if he punted it into a curb, we need to know what part failed after that unexpected event, and what other parts failed due to that, and so on. All we have is a batch of ECU codes and some pictures of the steering wheel, nothing on the suspension or steering mechanicals, so we have to work backwards. I specifically don't want to give the driver a hard time, otherwise they won't feel welcome to ask these questions when dealing with severe damage like this.

Diagnosis is not built on conjecture, and your entire post is just yelling that they ran into a curb. Yes, they did, and then they asked us to help after two shops gave him the runaround when he tried to "Fix obvious damage first" and now he's trying to "handle issues that aren't resolved after that."
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Old 12-24-2020, 03:07 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anticubus View Post
Love it when you all skip the part where I'm not talking about the physical damage, but what the codes mean and how they translate to what the driver is experiencing. Very obviously a sensor cannot affect steering position. What is clear is that a faulty angle sensor is a damaged part giving the wrong reading or a symptom of physical damage because the reading doesn't match the expected value given other sensors' readings.

Root cause analysis should be slow and steady. It doesn't matter if he punted it into a curb, we need to know what part failed after that unexpected event, and what other parts failed due to that, and so on. All we have is a batch of ECU codes and some pictures of the steering wheel, nothing on the suspension or steering mechanicals, so we have to work backwards. I specifically don't want to give the driver a hard time, otherwise they won't feel welcome to ask these questions when dealing with severe damage like this.

Diagnosis is not built on conjecture, and your entire post is just yelling that they ran into a curb. Yes, they did, and then they asked us to help after two shops gave him the runaround when he tried to "Fix obvious damage first" and now he's trying to "handle issues that aren't resolved after that."
I don't believe the steering angle sensor is the issue, it is located in the steering wheel assembly and was likely not affected. I did find this in the manual which is more then likely the issue.

Quote:
When the speed sensor or the yaw rate sensor has trouble, DTCs for the steering sensor may be output even when the steering sensor is normal.
This little quip is not in the steering section of the manual, it is the the brake system. It probably gives a steering angle DTC as well since the steering angle and differential in wheel speed sensors does not correlate. IE going straight they should read evenly.

Most likely a speed sensor was damaged, the wiring to the speed sensor was damaged, or the odd inputs from the speed sensors due to the alignment being off is tripping the DTC for the steering sensor too.
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Old 12-24-2020, 04:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anticubus View Post
Love it when you all skip the part where I'm not talking about the physical damage, but what the codes mean and how they translate to what the driver is experiencing. Very obviously a sensor cannot affect steering position. What is clear is that a faulty angle sensor is a damaged part giving the wrong reading or a symptom of physical damage because the reading doesn't match the expected value given other sensors' readings.

Root cause analysis should be slow and steady. It doesn't matter if he punted it into a curb, we need to know what part failed after that unexpected event, and what other parts failed due to that, and so on. All we have is a batch of ECU codes and some pictures of the steering wheel, nothing on the suspension or steering mechanicals, so we have to work backwards. I specifically don't want to give the driver a hard time, otherwise they won't feel welcome to ask these questions when dealing with severe damage like this.

Diagnosis is not built on conjecture, and your entire post is just yelling that they ran into a curb. Yes, they did, and then they asked us to help after two shops gave him the runaround when he tried to "Fix obvious damage first" and now he's trying to "handle issues that aren't resolved after that."
Where does he say two shops gave him the run around? Where do you speak of physical damage beyond pinched or pulled wires and washing the car? Not in this thread that I can see, after scrolling through the posts list a few times on two devices just to see if I was going mad.

Quote:
Diagnosis is not built on conjecture
Diagnosis is built on being able to logically trace an effect to a cause. Ignoring chassis damage when searching for an ESP issue is not logical, the fact that something moved in the suspension and now the steering (and it's angle sensor) isn't pointed straight is not conjecture, it's an admitted fact.

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It doesn't matter if he punted it into a curb,
IT MATTERS A WHOLE DAMN LOT. I actually am having trouble containing my outrage that someone would type this out. It is infuriating.
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Old 12-24-2020, 06:13 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by RZNT4R View Post
Where does he say two shops gave him the run around? Where do you speak of physical damage beyond pinched or pulled wires and washing the car? Not in this thread that I can see, after scrolling through the posts list a few times on two devices just to see if I was going mad.
No, you're spot on with that. I've been lurking and posting in so many threads about ABS and traction lights I made a mistake and mixed this up with the one about the cockeyed steering that did go to two shops (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143484). Can everyone stop hurting their cars?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by RZNT4R View Post
Diagnosis is built on being able to logically trace an effect to a cause. Ignoring chassis damage when searching for an ESP issue is not logical, the fact that something moved in the suspension and now the steering (and it's angle sensor) isn't pointed straight is not conjecture, it's an admitted fact.
Not ignoring the damage, ignoring the event because the car IS damaged, and it doesn't matter whether it was the driver punting it into a curb, or the curb coming to life and taking a few whacks at the rim with a baseball bat because it had a grudge. I want to hear and see the damage, the police and insurance adjusters are the ones who care about human actions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RZNT4R View Post
IT MATTERS A WHOLE DAMN LOT. I actually am having trouble containing my outrage that someone would type this out. It is infuriating.
Glad to know you've got enough rage for the both of us because all I'm seeing is a post from someone that, at this point, feels like they're actively trying to be angry over a misunderstanding. If you were in OP's shoes would you like to have the spotlight put on the mistake that led up to the damage occurring? I wouldn't, I'd like help understanding what is wrong and how to approach resolving the issues.
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Old 12-24-2020, 06:58 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by anticubus View Post
No, you're spot on with that. I've been lurking and posting in so many threads about ABS and traction lights I made a mistake and mixed this up with the one about the cockeyed steering that did go to two shops (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143484). Can everyone stop hurting their cars?!


Not ignoring the damage, ignoring the event because the car IS damaged, and it doesn't matter whether it was the driver punting it into a curb, or the curb coming to life and taking a few whacks at the rim with a baseball bat because it had a grudge. I want to hear and see the damage, the police and insurance adjusters are the ones who care about human actions.


Glad to know you've got enough rage for the both of us because all I'm seeing is a post from someone that, at this point, feels like they're actively trying to be angry over a misunderstanding. If you were in OP's shoes would you like to have the spotlight put on the mistake that led up to the damage occurring? I wouldn't, I'd like help understanding what is wrong and how to approach resolving the issues.
You seem to think I'm blaming him. Shit happens, I've punted my old mr2 into a curb too. I'm pointing it out as the first thing to fix, and I insisted on it in my reply to you because you said, and I quote.

Quote:
C1231 Steering Wheel Angle Sensor - Faulty Operation
This is why your steering alignment is off. The sensor is either out of calibration or needs to be replaced.
And went on to theorize about pinched wires and washing the car.

The help op needs is first and foremost an alignment rack and a perhaps a few parts, his bruised ego will recover soon enough and he'll be better coming out the other end. Showering him with wild suggestions that have no relation to the obvious cause and effect at play to spare him the embarrassment is actively hindering him, his misadventure was an accident (i presume). No, I wasn't blaming him, I was replying to and blaming you. Your outlandish reply to his issue was deliberate, it was no accident.
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