Taking OFT to Dyno [E85 / HKS EL / Grams TB]

[Dom_J]

What's going on,

I booked some dyno time next week and I was wondering if there's any software out I can use on the dyno for more of a "live tuning THEN lock it in," type feel.

I think I'll use about an hour of the session total by just loading the logs, downloading them, reviewing them, flashing them....rinse & repeat. I'm really just trying to lock in MBT and find out which AFR I'm getting the most power out of. Our local track is so packed I can't get more than (3) runs in on a test and tune day.

N/A E85 setup:

Injen Intake/GReddy Snorkel
HKS EL
Grams TB
17+ Red Intake Manifold
Greddy Evolution Exhaust

I thought about setting the Knock Correction Advance A table to roughly 10* after .60 engine load then since it one of those "pre-load" type dynos, just pulling the timing as it registers FLKC as I work up towards WOT. AFR wise on E85, I feel like it likes fuel so I think I'll start off at the 11.5, 12, 12.5 and see what the engine responds to. I know the OFT is limiting me vs the ECUTEK but I'll use what I have available at the moment.

Any helpful info/software to save time on the dyno would be amazing.

[Kodename47]

Well first of all I'd look at the cam timing to get the best from the HKS.....

Time limited on the OFT due to the flash and run nature. Can't make the most out of on the fly tuning like you can with EcuTek.

I would go prepared with a bunch of basemaps - various cam timings, various AFR runs and then finally the timing adjustments. I reckon you'll be able to use no more than 6-10 flashes in an hour so make the most of it. I probably wouldn't bother to go richer than 12.0 on E85 but as I don't run it, maybe others can confirm.

There's some info around on here:
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29679

[Dom_J]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

Well first of all I'd look at the cam timing to get the best from the HKS.....

Time limited on the OFT due to the flash and run nature. Can't make the most out of on the fly tuning like you can with EcuTek.

I would go prepared with a bunch of basemaps - various cam timings, various AFR runs and then finally the timing adjustments. I reckon you'll be able to use no more than 6-10 flashes in an hour so make the most of it. I probably wouldn't bother to go richer than 12.0 on E85 but as I don't run it, maybe others can confirm.

There's some info around on here:
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29679

I agree, I think we got room to play with in the cam timing arena and I was thinking definitely have a few tunes loaded up.

Thanks for the feedback, im going to head over to the thread attached!

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

Well first of all I'd look at the cam timing to get the best from the HKS.....

Time limited on the OFT due to the flash and run nature. Can't make the most out of on the fly tuning like you can with EcuTek.

I would go prepared with a bunch of basemaps - various cam timings, various AFR runs and then finally the timing adjustments. I reckon you'll be able to use no more than 6-10 flashes in an hour so make the most of it. I probably wouldn't bother to go richer than 12.0 on E85 but as I don't run it, maybe others can confirm.

There's some info around on here:
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29679

I run it all day long at 12.5. full load. Though you want to make sure your LTFT doesnt make make you fuel trims to far negative depending on your Open loopA/F targets. If you set it at 12 and you get negative LTFT, it would not be an issue. If you had it set at 12.5 then you gonna be running too lean. There's different strategies to achieve the same thing. Goal is to run consistently without too much fluctuation in fuel trims. Unless you're completely closed loop, then it wouldnt matter so much. Computer makes the adjustment fairly quickly under closed loop operation.

[tomm.brz]

Originally Posted by solidONE

I run it all day long at 12.5. full load. Though you want to make sure your LTFT doesnt make make you fuel trims to far negative depending on your Open loopA/F targets. If you set it at 12 and you get negative LTFT, it would not be an issue. If you had it set at 12.5 then you gonna be running too lean. There's different strategies to achieve the same thing. Goal is to run consistently without too much fluctuation in fuel trims. Unless you're completely closed loop, then it wouldnt matter so much. Computer makes the adjustment fairly quickly under closed loop operation.

then keep ltft off during open loop, or zero the negative ltft only
or disable it and enable ecutek closed loop so to have always a perfect afr

anyway 13 afr on full load with e85 won t be such a problem

[Dom_J]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

Well first of all I'd look at the cam timing to get the best from the HKS.....

Time limited on the OFT due to the flash and run nature. Can't make the most out of on the fly tuning like you can with EcuTek.

I would go prepared with a bunch of basemaps - various cam timings, various AFR runs and then finally the timing adjustments. I reckon you'll be able to use no more than 6-10 flashes in an hour so make the most of it. I probably wouldn't bother to go richer than 12.0 on E85 but as I don't run it, maybe others can confirm.

There's some info around on here:
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29679

Also, using the tool you provided for MAF scaling has been awesome. I noticed the best VVT program as well. Would that put me in the ballpark region after doing some good logs?

[tomm.brz]

for NA you can use the vvt tab yes

[Dom_J]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

for NA you can use the vvt tab yes

Solid, I'm still playing with it all but I'm going to attach what I'm looking at right now.

Looks like the green line might be trying to highlight "ideal VVT," but I'm still researching the matter as a whole. I know K-Swapped cars benefit greatly from using like a 50* VTC but unsure on our side of house.

[Kodename47]

@Dom_J the idea is you have VVT1 and VVT2 as your intake and exhaust cam timing from the datalog. Would also be good to do a 3rd (or above) gear pull from 2,500-3,000 rpm to give a good output.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by tomm.brz

then keep ltft off during open loop, or zero the negative ltft only
or disable it and enable ecutek closed loop so to have always a perfect afr

anyway 13 afr on full load with e85 won t be such a problem

Based on suggestions from Kodename47, we went and did this on my current set up in 2015? I forgot what the problem was but something with the part throttle being too rich, or something to that extent. I forgot exactly.

I've tried targeting closer to 13 afr on E85, but the logs werent pretty. Timing with get pulled more and more as the engine heats up.

[PulsarBeeerz]

So did yah make it to the dyno?

[Dom_J]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

So did yah make it to the dyno?

Didn't make it brother, we've been in 106* lately in Texas so I was wanting to wait a bit. Wayneroms tunes have been outstanding in getting this thing dialed in nice though! Ironically I've been able to get some quarter mile runs in, albeit in a 100* weather.

I was trying to see which intake setups would work best but ironically, the black intake manifold has shown to give me better times and speed down the strip. 14.6 vs a 14.8 and 96mph vs 94(before Wayneroms help). I'm not really surprised, I think the red manifold has the same effects the BPBs do, stockish cars amazing but full bolt on cars really need all the top end they can get.

I think I'm going to just throw the turbo kit on. I do enjoy the car all-motor, I even recently purchased the 4.56 final drive which I think would complete the all-motor experience for sure but all the R&D is kind of taxing ie. $200 an hour on a dyno, which intake is best, which IM is best, back and forth to the track etc etc.

I/H/E, E85 and the FD swap are the ticket, that's been proven. With the FA24 blocks becoming more readily available, that's honestly the way to go. There's about to be some real supra killers roaming these streets here soon, might direct my efforts that way for a bit.

[PulsarBeeerz]

Originally Posted by Dom_J

Didn't make it brother, we've been in 106* lately in Texas so I was wanting to wait a bit. Wayneroms tunes have been outstanding in getting this thing dialed in nice though! Ironically I've been able to get some quarter mile runs in, albeit in a 100* weather.

I was trying to see which intake setups would work best but ironically, the black intake manifold has shown to give me better times and speed down the strip. 14.6 vs a 14.8 and 96mph vs 94(before Wayneroms help). I'm not really surprised, I think the red manifold has the same effects the BPBs do, stockish cars amazing but full bolt on cars really need all the top end they can get.

I think I'm going to just throw the turbo kit on. I do enjoy the car all-motor, I even recently purchased the 4.56 final drive which I think would complete the all-motor experience for sure but all the R&D is kind of taxing ie. $200 an hour on a dyno, which intake is best, which IM is best, back and forth to the track etc etc.

I/H/E, E85 and the FD swap are the ticket, that's been proven. With the FA24 blocks becoming more readily available, that's honestly the way to go. There's about to be some real supra killers roaming these streets here soon, might direct my efforts that way for a bit.

It may be the heat playing a bigger factory than anything else. The red IM would be super heat soaked after waiting even a couple of minutes in the staging lanes. The lone back to back dyno I saw of the black vs red IM shows less fall off than the black in the upper rpms 7k+ but is its heat soaked from idling you'd be down on power. I extrude honed my MY17 IM and bored out the oem TB 2mm. Its damn near like E85 on top of E85 ~10-12whp If I had to guess. But...I'm in over $1200 in my little project.lol I really want a 4.56 gear set too but after I saw how much they were all said and done I said well maybe later.



I wouldn't hold your breath on the FA24 blocks man. There's no guarantee that our heads would line up well enough to make it a viable option. Plus they have way lower compression. I think people are hoping for a k20/24 fighter but remember its a Subaru.

[Dom_J]

Originally Posted by PulsarBeeerz

It may be the heat playing a bigger factory than anything else. The red IM would be super heat soaked after waiting even a couple of minutes in the staging lanes. The lone back to back dyno I saw of the black vs red IM shows less fall off than the black in the upper rpms 7k+ but is its heat soaked from idling you'd be down on power. I extrude honed my MY17 IM and bored out the oem TB 2mm. Its damn near like E85 on top of E85 ~10-12whp If I had to guess. But...I'm in over $1200 in my little project.lol I really want a 4.56 gear set too but after I saw how much they were all said and done I said well maybe later.



I wouldn't hold your breath on the FA24 blocks man. There's no guarantee that our heads would line up well enough to make it a viable option. Plus they have way lower compression. I think people are hoping for a k20/24 fighter but remember its a Subaru.

You ain't lying on that one, I wouldn't be surprised if something like that happens. I've been seeing the WRX guys are converting to our intake manifolds using adapter kits so I'm hoping there's something we could get as well cause I know they'll want the fa24 also. I'm hoping to get a hold of one at the dealer soon to just tear down. Prime motoring has been pushing the fa24 to the limited and have determined they can handle around 500whp no sweat daily and I believe they blew it up at 600whp only due to running out of fuel. They bought another block directly from Subaru and should be posting new numbers with adequate fuel soon.

https://www.ibuildracecars.com/store...t-brz-manifold

I think you nailed the best way to upgrade to the MY17 manifold. That extrude hone is crucial. I definitely wouldn't mind seeing those (3) dynos back to back. The reason I aimed at the black manifold was looking at the way the k20 RBC manifold and S2000 manifold are oriented with the shorter runners in there high powered (4) cylinders but there are inline (4) also.

Surprisingly I actually thought the same thing on the heat soak and did some testing with my infrared thermal heat gun to see how they differed after a 30-minute drive under the 100* Texas sun.

The MY17 coating actually works pretty good:

Red MY17: 102* outside pulling into my driveway sat at: 143* / 10-minutes with the engine off jumped to 159*

Black IM: 100* outside pulling into the driveway sat at: 139* / 10-minutes later 150*

Not too bad but I guess the longer they sit(ie staging lanes), the more they could differ.

I also used a local shop we have for the FD and it was a lot cheaper being that all BRZ/FRS use the Toyota 8" differential, it can be done a lot cheaper than we think, only other item needed being a rebuild kit as I believe the crush washers are one-time use only.

https://www.4wheelparts.com/p/g2-toy...CNB-2-2041-456

I grabbed an automatic FRS diff from the junkyard for a $100 to tear apart and play with, not too much to lose. I do know most transmission shops are wanting about $400 for labor but then when I tell them its not a truck, they're like "oh, it's not 4wd? That shouldn't be too bad at all." I haven't confirmed if they'd charge me any less or not but I really wanted to do it myself.