Drifting Questions

[bucket]

Originally Posted by Shin

So I'm planning getting an FR-S soon, but I'm just your typical young driver that only knows how to use the accelerator and brake to go fast in an AT...

Thing is I'd like to start learning to drift, would this be possible in an AT since it has paddle shifters? I'm also considering MT, but I'd have to learn to drive MT.

I guess the real question is would I be able to drift in an AT (in sport or out of sport)? If so, are there any good sites I can get tutorials from or do you guys have any instructions or tips of your own for drifting an AT? And if drifting in MT is better, how is it better and what sites would you recommend or tips would you give for drifting one?

I do plan on only practicing in safe conditions where I can't hurt anyone else.

Thanks in advance!

Can I try and save you a ton of money and recommend not doing this with a new car?

0.1. Autox and learn some basic under-limit car control before venturing into over-limit car control.

1. You will crash and break things. I can't really think of anybody who I know that has been drifting for more than a year and hasn't...most likely wheels and control arms if you're lucky.

2. From what I've read, this car is not really going to be an easy drifter, and AT will only add to that. I haven't driven one yet, but on paper and from reviews it sounds about like a stock 240sx power wise. It's probably a momentum drifter, which will take a good deal of commitment and confidence once you graduate from donuts, figure 8s, and 2nd gear transitions.

3. If you don't crash, then you'll probably break something mechanical anyways...the warranty will also most likely be void at this point.

4. MT is way better for drifting since you have a lot more things you can control. This car is not going to magic-drift by mashing the throttle. Since you aren't able to use any clutch-based techniques, you'll need to play with the weight transitions of the car and use the e-brake. A manual transmission car also has a much more connected and responsive drive-line. Most automatics feel kind of like everything is connected with a rubber band when I drive one (sole exception is the VW DSG)...if you're in a drift you want your accelerator pedal connected to the rear wheels and not routed through a committee.

5. If you really want to drift, buy an s13, put a a real LSD into it instead of just welding the open unit, and freshen up the suspension and bushings. Do absolutely nothing to the motor...you really don't need an SR, LS1, or turbo until you can figure things out with stock HP. If you're going to throw money at parts beyond suspension and LSD, I would say clutch and flywheel. That is probably all < $5k without trying hard for a deal on anything.

[Shin]

I'll probably look into getting an 240sx since I kinda want to wait and get a used FR-S, but since i'm currently carless. As for the 240sx, what year range and price range should I be looking for? Also tried looking for it on craigslist and autotrader, couldn't find any in my area, you guys know of any other way to find one besides driving around looking for one at a private dealership.

[315FR-S]

Originally Posted by Shin

I'll probably look into getting an 240sx since I kinda want to wait and get a used FR-S, but since i'm currently carless. As for the 240sx, what year range and price range should I be looking for? Also tried looking for it on craigslist and autotrader, couldn't find any in my area, you guys know of any other way to find one besides driving around looking for one at a private dealership.

its gonna be tough finding a used one thats not modded or abused. but theyre out there. craigslist is a good place to start. local classifieds. dont be afraid to look outta state. sometimes you can find some pretty sweet deals

[eifer]

Don't drift on public roads though

Kthx

[ichitaka05]

240sx is nice... But Miata might be another good beater drift car to practice. It's light, not much power, a ton of mod parts that can buy for a cheap, & sometime you can find em selling low as $500

[dookie11]

Originally Posted by NikostC

MT makes it easier because you can control when to shift and keeping it in higher rpm for more power. But if your learning you should watch the Drift Bible by Keichii tsuchiya.

Must say, that was a good video. So is the VTEC battle one, where the CRX beats everything ahhaha.

[Moto-P]

If you are not basically used to the idea of drifting, AT and MT is the least of the dangers ahead. The best thing to do is (this is if you are OK with abusing the newly purchased FRS/BRZ) is to find a local event that is safe, and to seek instruction in a safe environment.

The first step in learning how to drift is basically getting used to having your car go OUT OF CONTROL and to practice getting it back in control. In a safe environment this is only about abusive use of the car, especially in the driveline, engine, and tires. In this stage, whether AT or Manual, the controls will differ somewhat according to the set of tools you have. If you are not adept at the Manual, I suggest you do learn how to use a manual transmission. AT is a bit harder as you don't have the tool called the clutch pedal to send your car off into a drift, and must rely on a more advanced skill of inducing it by yaw motions and reading tire contact patch precisely.

In any case, an MT is easier car to learn how to drift, but that is only if you do know how to use a manual pretty proficiently. Doing this in an AT is actually more difficult.

Keep in mind and I say it again though, drifting is a pretty advanced driving skill, and is something built over years of advanced driving techniques, and build along with advanced car control, and racing techniques, all the same time. It takes usually a lot of abuse, and even many wrecked cars and parts before one is proficient and skilled enough to even do it safely in tracks and anywhere there are hazards.

Even then it is not the safest thing to be doing on canyon roads or public spaces, as potential of destroying or injuring something VERY expensive is always imminent when doing this.

I won't say don't do it, as learning how to do it is also a key to becoming a safe and skilled driver. But, where you learn to do it, and knowing what to expect in the process of learning, will help you avoid massive financial obstacles, big accidents many times over, and reduce the time it takes to be a great driver over the next decade.

I might also add that the FRS /BRZ has such great balance, it is a truly gratifying car to drift with skills to match.
However, I might also say that it is one of the WORST cars to try to LEARN from the start, as drifting this well balanced car takes a lot of driver precision and skills, as well as having to be extremely quick and accurate with the controls.
This not to mention is a BRAND NEW and expensive car that you will be DEFINITELY ABUSING, and even might put in BIG harm's way.

If you are serious, I can teach you, as afterall, I wrote the first English book on Japanese drifting, and worked to shape the industry from the start in 1995. From USA Ikaten, to D1 to Drift Day instructor's core menu to translating for Keiichi and moving on to setting up the back bone of Formula D in 2003.
But you need to find the time, budget, patience, and budget, and budget, and resources of repairing cars, and budget, and budget.
And I strongly urge you to buy an older, semi-disposable car, even in FWD, and get the basics down. And also attend Solo2 or other advanced racing/driving programs and attend them first, many times over, as you will need every bit of precision and skills built in those venues, before going out to try this.

I'm definitely not trying to scare you here as well, but the truth be known, that racing any car has its huge risks and financial burden and I am only trying to sink that into anyone's head, as I've been though 27 years of this hardship and resulting enjoyment.

In real drifting, there is no START button in the controller to RESET your game, car, venue, or finances.

[JDMrolla]

First thing I want to see you do is rip that e-brake! After you rip that E-Brake then I want you to power over.

enjoy drifting

[Memphis]

Originally Posted by JDMrolla

First thing I want to see you do is rip that e-brake! After you rip that E-Brake then I want you to power over.

enjoy drifting

Lol.

"Uh.... Is the e-brake supposed to be removable?" *crash*

[pr0j]

Originally Posted by Shin

So I'm planning getting an FR-S soon, but I'm just your typical young driver that only knows how to use the accelerator and brake to go fast in an AT...

Thing is I'd like to start learning to drift, would this be possible in an AT since it has paddle shifters? I'm also considering MT, but I'd have to learn to drive MT.

I guess the real question is would I be able to drift in an AT (in sport or out of sport)? If so, are there any good sites I can get tutorials from or do you guys have any instructions or tips of your own for drifting an AT? And if drifting in MT is better, how is it better and what sites would you recommend or tips would you give for drifting one?

I do plan on only practicing in safe conditions where I can't hurt anyone else.

Thanks in advance!

Mate I reckon you should learn MT anyway. I think its a massive disability only knowing how to drive an auto, and if you have any interest in cars / driving, you will want to get the most immersive feeling you can in your car, and MT is the best way to do that, whether drifting or driving to the shops for an iced coffee

also, I can't say from personal experience because I learned in a manual off the bat, but being in a situation where you need to drive someones car somewhere in an emergency and being unable due to a strange stick thing and a third pedal you don't know what to do with... well IMHO that would be pretty shitty.

Even if you keep driving an auto, I think just knowing how to drive an MT should be mandatory.

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by Shin

I'll probably look into getting an 240sx since I kinda want to wait and get a used FR-S, but since i'm currently carless. As for the 240sx, what year range and price range should I be looking for? Also tried looking for it on craigslist and autotrader, couldn't find any in my area, you guys know of any other way to find one besides driving around looking for one at a private dealership.

Any 240SX from 1989-1998 will work. 1993 I think was the first year they had the twin cam 2.4L KA24DE, whereas the older ones were single cam and made a little less power. You can swap a twin cam engine in an older car fairly easily. The S13 chassis (1989-1994) is cheaper and more plentiful, but the S14 (1995-1998) has better suspension geometry. Most of my friends learned to drift in S13's. People do engine swaps in them all the time, so if you need more power it's not far away. In Japan these cars came with 2.0L turbocharged SR20DET engines. People often turbo the stock KA motors, too. It's also easy enough to do a 5spd manual swap if all you can find is automatic ones.

The 240SX SE's have a viscous limited slip differential, but by now they're probably old and tired. A good clutch type or Torsen limited slip differential is a good way to go if you have ~$1000 to spend on one. Welding the differential spider gears is the cheapest (free if you have a friend that can weld) and most effective way to get the car sideways, but since both wheels will now be spinning at the same speed in turns, it makes low speed parking lot driving annoying and will eat tires quicker. But why should you care? This is a beater. Suspension setup can definitely help you, too. Lower, stiffer, more steering angle; these are often conducive to better control and better slides.

The best part about a 240SX? They're plentiful, parts are a dime a dozen, and everyone else is already drifting them left and right, so there's always plenty of people who can help you along in your quest to get sideways. Do some research; get on one of their forums - NICO club, 240SXone.com, zilvia.net, 240sxforums.com. They're good places to find information and also cars/parts for sale.

Good luck! Hope this helps

[TylerLieberman]

Downside to 240s....drift tax. People want stupid amounts.of money for them. Look at a majority of ads of 240s for sale. More than likely it will say somwhere, "would make a great drift car"

S13 is the way to go for a drift car. Cheaper and easier to find. Most of the oem suspension bits from an s14 can be dropped into an s13. Stock dual cam KA is more than enough. S14s are harder to find andore expensive as well. Plus theyre bigger and i favor the wheelbase of the s13. Much better for drifting imho.

stock ka, decent coils, some type off diff whether it be welded or lsd. To hell woth vlsds. Trash. I prefer welded diffs and ive gone through a kaaz and cusco 2 way. A lot of people are running welded in proam series and stuff now. To each their own though. Besides that, a decent seat and steering wheel setup and youre good to go. All of that can be done for like $5k MAX

After that, seat time

[samsam5886]

Originally Posted by MiguelAE86

^ This!

haha, i remember back when i used to play LFS with all my friends (about 13-14) they had no idea where to start to learn how to drift, and i just sent them a link to that video and said "Watch. Closely" And low-and-behold, they learned a lot!

OMG finally someone else who also uses LFS! I highly recommend LFS (lfs.net) with a G27 steering wheel to practice car control.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Originally Posted by Shin

So I'm planning getting an FR-S soon, but I'm just your typical young driver that only knows how to use the accelerator and brake to go fast in an AT...

I'm not trying to be mean, but the typical young driver usually wants to do a lot of stupid stuff. Drifting is flashy, not a terrible thing to learn, but if you can't even drive stick, then drifting should be the least of your concerns.

Originally Posted by Shin

I do plan on only practicing in safe conditions where I can't hurt anyone else.

You mean on a track? Because anywhere else is not a safe condition where you can't hurt anyone else.

You can watch Drift Bible if you want, but it just teaches you certain techniques, all of which are much easier said than done. And if you can't even drive stick yet, then there's not much reason to study it with a pencil and notepad.

What I'd recommend is to go to go-kart tracks. It's still plenty of fun, and you get chances to really push the car in a much safer environment while being able to make mistakes that are far less costly than if you did the same thing in an actual car, whether on a track or a place less safe than one. Go-karts don't drift very easily since they're not set up that way (and generally grip pretty well), but you'll learn how to countersteer (vital for not spinning out, whether you intended to drift or not) while realizing what kind of input you need to get the rear end to break loose while controlling it so you don't end up facing the wrong direction. But the most important thing you'll realize is that drifting (or at least unnecessary sliding) slows you down, once you compare your lap times.

Personally, I think drifting is entertaining, having been watching events in person since 2003 when I first attended Drift Showoff at Irwindale before it had momentum in the U.S. (as it wasn't even on the track but in their side parking lot). But unless you have a lot of money to spend on tires (and maybe bumpers and powertrain parts, depending on how hard you push your car) combined with a need to show off to other people, it's useless if you're not in an actual drift competition or in an actual rally race (which you wouldn't do in this car anyway, though the lines that rally drivers take through a corner are very different from the lines that a drifter would take, because it's speed vs. style).