Help me choose a RWD car with a manual transmission

[squelchy451]

I am getting close to selling my current car, a 2007 GTI which has served me very well for the last 3 years, but it is just a tuned up hatchback at the end of the day. With that said, here are what I am thinking of getting next:

1. Infiniti G37.
Pros: The most direct competitor to BMW 3 series that Japan has ever produced. Powerful, nice steering feel, luxurious, and looks to drool over. I've driven a G37x for a week before and liked how solid it felt.
Cons: Heavy, drivetrain lacks refinement for a car of this weight/price

2. BRZ/86
Pros: Light, sharp responses, easy to maintain, decent fuel mileage, maintenance history isn't much of an issue.
Cons: Looks faster than it is, interior is no better than a Yaris (not the Mazda one), would get me back on the modding game

3. E46 BMW (ZHP or M3)
Pros: What I always wanted, though I never driven it. The allure of the inline 6 is very strong for me
Cons: All the headaches of just owning one. Plus, I was much happier when I had a car that I enjoyed driving but not necessarily liked how it looked. When I get too attached to a car, it just stresses me out.

4. Not RWD, but 10th gen Civic Si.
Pros: Light, scores extremely high on the practicality/comfort-to-fun ratio
Cons: At the end of the day FWD cars can only be so good. Also, not much of a looker in my opinion, but that can be a plus in that I'll never worry about whether I'm detailing it often enough or if some bird is going to shit on it while it's parked.

[humfrz]

I reckon it don't matter as long as it fits your budget and lifestyle.

After you sort them out based on those criteria, just pick a perty one that feels right.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by humfrz

just pick a perty one that feels right.

Are we talking about the same thing?

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by squelchy451

1. Infiniti G37.
2. BRZ/86
3. E46 BMW (ZHP or M3)
4. 10th gen Civic Si.

Here are my thoughts.
1/ Not a contender. Too heavy.
2/ A contender. Fun, relatively lightweight. Not too powerful so a bit more opportunity to cane it a little on the street.
3/ Not a contender. I think it is the best car in this list but I have reservations about its age and maintenance costs. I do not know if these fears are founded but even so.
4/ A contender. New car, practical, perception of of good reliability, possibility of fun to drive.

Originally Posted by squelchy451

At the end of the day FWD cars can only be so good.

At the end of the day a fun fwd is better than a non-fun rwd.

My Pug 206 was heaps of fun, my father's barge of a Volvo not so much.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

Are we talking about the same thing?

Oh ...... what WERE we talking about? -

[R_E_L]

Do you need the car, RIGHT NOW? If you can wait a year I would wait. Out of the cars you mentioned I would only pick between the E46 and the twin. But I wouldn't want to pick either one right now.

The E46 while a great car, will be an old car. Unless you are willing to pay a premium for a well maintained fresh example, I worry it wont be so great. People can be cheap when it comes to old German cars. They neglect little things here and there that eventually add up and fail at an inopportune time. If you're cheap too, you might only fix the broken part. But then that new part places stress on another old part, then that part breaks and so on and so forth. You may end up in something worn out and instead of enjoying the car, spend time fixing little things here and there that were ignored by previous owners. I drive an E36 as my daily and have the BRZ as my canyon toy. The bimmer is a 22 year old car now, and I can feel it. No major problems, car has been reliable and it is great for what it is. But is it tight and snappy? Nope. Not anymore. And that's OK because its not what I need. But if i wanted a fresh feeling car, I'd have to drop some money, and while no individual part will cost anything crazy, it adds up when you have to do multiple things and each part has a premium on it compared to a typical car.

What about the twin? The new car will probably be unveiled in the next year. And while rumors are it will be a let down compared to what people want, it might still be an improvement over the current car, even if slight. So far it sounds like they might even reuse the same chassis, with the only significant change being the engine. That means I probably wont be interested in it, as it wont be much of an upgrade compared to my modded twin. But if I didn't own one yet and was already thinking about getting one, that changes things a bit. Why? Here's my reasoning: If the chassis is the same, that also suggests the weight might be nearly the same (this is good). Certainly the car will gain some pounds with the added safety features and slightly beefier suspension and drive train that comes with the power bump, but it shouldn't be anything crazy. Then there is the engine. Is it lame that it might only result in an increase of 15HP and 20TQ? YES. But, if you were already looking at a current twin, a gain is a gain. Plus, this new engine is a 2.4. If you compare power to displacement for both the new and current engines, the current engine gives the impression of being more stressed, while the 2.4 appears to have more headroom. This suggesting better reliability and potential if you decide to mod it (assuming the port and direct injection benefits carry over from the FA20 and Toyota enforces its quality standards). Now this is all speculation right now, but if you wait until next spring the car should be revealed by then and you will have all the necessary info to make a decision. Worse case scenario, you buy a current gen twin next spring and have extra money saved for the down payment (or a header and tune ).

My $.02

[why?]

Have you ever been in a Yaris? The BRZ or any Special edition of either of these cars has a much better interior. As much as all infiniti's of that era were amazing, they are starting to get really old.


What are you looking for? A car you can drive every day, a toy, or something you are going to take to autocross or the track? Start by looking at all these auto purchasing web sites and see what is in your price range, there will be a ton of different cars you have never even thought about. You can usually get a Ford era Jaguar in good condition with limited miles for next to nothing.

[Yoshoobaroo]

An alternative to consider:

2009-2011 BMW 335i (N55 engine). These are great fast all-rounders. Stock they keep up with an E46 M3 (same exact nurburgring time), but they’re a lot newer and easier to live with. The N55 has much less problems than the ol twin turbo N54 and is the basis of the current B58 and S55 motors. Throw a set of square 255s on them and they handle very well, and feel lighter on their feet than the 3500lb weight suggests. You can add a tune for ~360-380hp and leave it at that, it’ll be reliable enough.

[Joveen]

Just going to comment on the FWD. If every choose one get a 2015-present MK7 GTi.

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[alphasaur]

Why sell GTI and then look at a civic si?

GTIs are very good, especially with a tune.

That being said, the interior of the 86/BRZ is pretty decent post 2017 and I honestly don't think the old g37s and 35s are much better in the interior department. They feel very dated while the simplicity of the frs has held up well IMO.

I second looking at 135/335s vs the m3. Way more power potential, better reliability, cheaper parts due to being less of a niche car, and a very strong platform. You're looking at an insanely fast car with very few mods.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by squelchy451

a 2007 GTI which has served me very well for the last 3 years, but it is just a tuned up hatchback at the end of the day.

I've came from a Focus ST to a BRZ recently, so I'll throw my two cents. You really need to define your requirements. If you were happy with the GTI and aren't looking for anything significantly sportier and don't want to sacrifice refinement and quality, I doubt you'd be happy in a Twin. The natural step up would be a sport sedan. Sadly these are pretty rare with a manual, and your listed G37 (might check the G35 as well if you're okay with an E46) and 3 series are pretty much the only options. Another interesting possibility is a new Genesis G70 - you haven't given your budget, so it might be completely inappropriate, but the G70 is available as a manual with the 2 liter turbo and is speced in sport trim only (with an LSD and Brembo brakes). I drove one before getting my BRZ and it was a great car to drive.

If you do want more hardcore sportiness, a Twin would be a great option. If you can live with just two seats, a Miata is also a great option.

If you're considering a Civic SI and are okay with FWD, the Civic Type R and the Veloster N are two of the best FWD sporty cars out there, but that depends on the budget as well. A used Focus ST is a step up from your GTI in sportiness and a couple of steps down in refinement and quality.

[Summerwolf]

Why isn't a sixth gen Camaro on this list? Better performance than any option listed and in the ballpark of pricing.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

Why isn't a sixth gen Camaro on this list? Better performance than any option listed and in the ballpark of pricing.

Cause dumbestics is suck!!!!!!

[DarkPira7e]

Go with a 330i ZHP with the 6 speed. Not much maintenance, looks badass, handles well, and can be had for much cheaper. No need to worry about those cheap door mounted window switches or inferior carpet material