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Old 05-16-2021, 08:33 PM   #4075
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Originally Posted by EAGLE5 View Post
Do threaded rod ends in bending fail much? Are threaded rod ends in bending acceptable ever? Seems like a lot of aftermarket companies offer adjustable suspension that puts the threaded rods in a bending position. I've just read that this is a bad idea. I just don't see people here or anywhere complaining much about actual failures.
They will always make me a little nervous. Rod ends in bending is a Formula SAE thing (as in they hate it a lot and you get penalized), so for some people it's just a thing you never ever do. Honestly there's just other better ways to do things anyway.

We don't make suspension arms but if we did I wouldn't do it that way. And yes a lot of companies do it and with oversized rod ends so it's generally okay but still...

More worrisome IMO are poly bushings that are used incorrectly on suspension arms.

- Andrew
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Old 05-16-2021, 11:26 PM   #4076
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Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering View Post
They will always make me a little nervous. Rod ends in bending is a Formula SAE thing (as in they hate it a lot and you get penalized), so for some people it's just a thing you never ever do. Honestly there's just other better ways to do things anyway.

We don't make suspension arms but if we did I wouldn't do it that way. And yes a lot of companies do it and with oversized rod ends so it's generally okay but still...

More worrisome IMO are poly bushings that are used incorrectly on suspension arms.

- Andrew
Thanks, Andrew. I did see most complaints about rod ends in bending happen in reference to Formula SAE. I just have never seen somebody post a photo of their failed automotive rod end with stripped threads. I have seen some bent components, but that's a separate kind of failure. The closest I came was a discussion of a Westfield, which from what I could tell from their suspension design, idiotically uses rod ends in bending on two locations. From what I've read, shims are often the best way to adjust.

Please tell me more about poly bushings used incorrectly on suspension arms. What do you see?
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Old 06-19-2021, 02:41 PM   #4077
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Please tell me more about poly bushings used incorrectly on suspension arms. What do you see?
For the most part it's bushings that don't allow enough articulation OR bind in such a way that a huge amount of strain is placed on the arm itself, for instance if the bushing crush tube is too short or something else isn't right. I have had a binding poly bushing on my car that lead to catastrophic failure of the toe arm (thankfully at like 5 mph).

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Old 06-21-2021, 01:49 PM   #4078
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Unable to get desired camber with Bilstein struts

Installed the Bilstein B12 pro kit which is the B6 strut with Eibach springs . Used a Verus camber plate and one camber bolt . If I try for -3 degrees camber in front the lower strut spring perch (90mm) contacts the subframe . I am at -2 degrees but that is really hard on my tires on a track day , is there a way to get more camber in front with the Bilsteins or will I need to get a different suspension set up ?
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Old 06-21-2021, 06:53 PM   #4079
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Installed the Bilstein B12 pro kit which is the B6 strut with Eibach springs . Used a Verus camber plate and one camber bolt . If I try for -3 degrees camber in front the lower strut spring perch (90mm) contacts the subframe . I am at -2 degrees but that is really hard on my tires on a track day , is there a way to get more camber in front with the Bilsteins or will I need to get a different suspension set up ?
slot the struts or enlargen the upper hole the same on both sides
another camber bolt
offset lower control arm bushing
aftermarket adjustable lower control arm
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Old 06-22-2021, 07:36 PM   #4080
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@CSG, @RCE,
There is a TON of information in this thread (amazing!), although I'm having trouble understanding what a reasonable modification progression looks like with respect to taking a stock street car (in this case a 2020 BRZ with PP) and building it out to respond well at the track to stickier tires in the "extreme summer performance" category. For example, I hear that increased spring rates are important. What is a target spring rate and damper for stock-ish height car that can still be driven to the track without hating road imperfections? I also see differences in spring rates front to back. What spring rate balance front to back is desirable for 2017+ cars with stock sway bars? I also hear that alignment is important. So.....my question is this: If we take a stock BRZ with PP to the track (open lapping, Solo HPDE), and desire to run 200TW tires with great to excellent vehicle dynamics, what is a reasonable and effective combination of mods for this application? Is there a minimal level advisable so as to take advantage of the additional grip? Is alignment adjustments front and back plus new coils and dampers enough, or are we wanting to see new sway bars as well? I'm just looking to take it up a notch to handling 200TW with great dynamics, but don't want to ruin the goodness that's already in the stock car. I would expect some degradation of street comfort as a trade-off, which acceptable. This isn't GT car for me. It's a spirited canyon run or back and forth to the track. Money is not the limiting factor here, ignorance is
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Old 06-29-2021, 04:13 PM   #4081
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Need more rear grip

After a couple autocross events with my new tS-converted 2019 BRZ PP, I still feel like I need less oversteer when powering out of corners. This is how my setup is right now:

-Bilstein B6 dampers on tS STi pink springs (10mm).
-STi draw stiffener and flexible V-bars.
-Falken RT660 on 17x8" ET45 wheels.
- -1.9* front camber, -0.9* rear camber, zero front toe, 0.10* rear toe-in.

Any suggestions on reducing oversteer on corner exit? I'm trying to stay in the Stock class of my autocross club which allows for minor mods, so here are my options that I'm considering:
-Add the STi flexible strut tower brace (ST20502AS000).
-Install a thicker front aftermarket swaybar, OR install the smaller rear swaybar from the 13-16' MY cars. Not both.

I'm not allowed to add camber-adjustable rear control arms so that's out of the question.
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Old 06-29-2021, 04:20 PM   #4082
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Originally Posted by N_Raged View Post
After a couple autocross events with my new tS-converted 2019 BRZ PP, I still feel like I need less oversteer when powering out of corners. This is how my setup is right now:

-Bilstein B6 dampers on tS STi pink springs (10mm).
-STi draw stiffener and flexible V-bars.
-Falken RT660 on 17x8" ET45 wheels.
- -1.9* front camber, -0.9* rear camber, zero front toe, 0.10* rear toe-in.

Any suggestions on reducing oversteer on corner exit? I'm trying to stay in the Stock class of my autocross club which allows for minor mods, so here are my options that I'm considering:
-Add the STi flexible strut tower brace (ST20502AS000).
-Install a thicker front aftermarket swaybar, OR install the smaller rear swaybar from the 13-16' MY cars. Not both.

I'm not allowed to add camber-adjustable rear control arms so that's out of the question.
For auto-x and staying within stock class rules, a front 20mm swaybar would do nicely.

- Andrew
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Old 06-29-2021, 04:28 PM   #4083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAS4 View Post
@CSG, @RCE,
There is a TON of information in this thread (amazing!), although I'm having trouble understanding what a reasonable modification progression looks like with respect to taking a stock street car (in this case a 2020 BRZ with PP) and building it out to respond well at the track to stickier tires in the "extreme summer performance" category. For example, I hear that increased spring rates are important. What is a target spring rate and damper for stock-ish height car that can still be driven to the track without hating road imperfections? I also see differences in spring rates front to back. What spring rate balance front to back is desirable for 2017+ cars with stock sway bars? I also hear that alignment is important. So.....my question is this: If we take a stock BRZ with PP to the track (open lapping, Solo HPDE), and desire to run 200TW tires with great to excellent vehicle dynamics, what is a reasonable and effective combination of mods for this application? Is there a minimal level advisable so as to take advantage of the additional grip? Is alignment adjustments front and back plus new coils and dampers enough, or are we wanting to see new sway bars as well? I'm just looking to take it up a notch to handling 200TW with great dynamics, but don't want to ruin the goodness that's already in the stock car. I would expect some degradation of street comfort as a trade-off, which acceptable. This isn't GT car for me. It's a spirited canyon run or back and forth to the track. Money is not the limiting factor here, ignorance is
Spring rates are dependent on a variety of factors, a large one being tire choice. More grip means the car can roll more, so you need more roll resistance.

There's some personal preference...some like a very sharp and reactive car, others a more forgiving car. Some that has to do with overall stiffness and some of that with spring rate balance.

And of course there's alignment and ride height etc to tune as well.

For what your looking for, a good set of coilovers with ball park 7 kg/mm spring rates, camber plates, and rear adjustable lower control arms will do what you need IF set up correctly.

A couple of bushings can help and can really improve feel/feedback/consistency, but not required.

Larger swaybars optional, not 100% needed.

Happy to chat if you have more questions.

- Andrew
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Old 06-29-2021, 04:43 PM   #4084
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Originally Posted by N_Raged View Post
After a couple autocross events with my new tS-converted 2019 BRZ PP, I still feel like I need less oversteer when powering out of corners.
Do you have any onboard videos, or better yet data logs, so that others can see what the car is doing vs what you are doing?
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Old 06-29-2021, 05:13 PM   #4085
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Do you have any onboard videos, or better yet data logs, so that others can see what the car is doing vs what you are doing?
Here's a good day when I was able to get on the power early but still had to be careful. Would have won my class if I didn't hit a cone.


Here's a bad day when I could not get on the power early exiting a corner because of lack of rear grip. You can see my messy exit of a hairpin at 0:16 because I had to correct the oversteer.
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Old 06-29-2021, 05:20 PM   #4086
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Originally Posted by N_Raged View Post
After a couple autocross events with my new tS-converted 2019 BRZ PP, I still feel like I need less oversteer when powering out of corners. This is how my setup is right now:

-Bilstein B6 dampers on tS STi pink springs (10mm).
-STi draw stiffener and flexible V-bars.
-Falken RT660 on 17x8" ET45 wheels.
- -1.9* front camber, -0.9* rear camber, zero front toe, 0.10* rear toe-in.

Any suggestions on reducing oversteer on corner exit? I'm trying to stay in the Stock class of my autocross club which allows for minor mods, so here are my options that I'm considering:
-Add the STi flexible strut tower brace (ST20502AS000).
-Install a thicker front aftermarket swaybar, OR install the smaller rear swaybar from the 13-16' MY cars. Not both.

I'm not allowed to add camber-adjustable rear control arms so that's out of the question.
Have you thought about removing the rear sway bar or unhooking one side to try it out? That worked for me on a similar setup at AX speeds. Then that larger FSB could be an option after that.
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Old 06-29-2021, 10:00 PM   #4087
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For auto-x and staying within stock class rules, a front 20mm swaybar would do nicely.

- Andrew
What about the 21mm from Pedders or the 22mm from Perrin? Whiteline has the only 20mm bar and it's discontinued.
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Old 06-29-2021, 11:48 PM   #4088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WOJO View Post
Installed the Bilstein B12 pro kit which is the B6 strut with Eibach springs . Used a Verus camber plate and one camber bolt . If I try for -3 degrees camber in front the lower strut spring perch (90mm) contacts the subframe . I am at -2 degrees but that is really hard on my tires on a track day , is there a way to get more camber in front with the Bilsteins or will I need to get a different suspension set up ?
Did you adjust the camber plates

-From there site Up to -3 degrees of camber at stock ride height without camber bolts
-https://www.verus-engineering.com/shop/product/front-camber-plate-assembly-brz-frs-gt86-349

Look at the picture of the Blue camber plate. This is what I am talking about adjusting the camber plates. Gives you a lot more angle.
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