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Old 10-24-2019, 04:33 PM   #463
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That is unfortunate, bummer you had to deal with that, I know he is a busy guy and possibly too busy. From my experience with other shops and TRL, I still would rather trust Neal. He is honest and all my experiences at the shop have been great, seems like a string of mishaps and unlucky circumstances. To each their own, but I've seen Doctors make mistakes, Police make mistakes, I make mistakes, because mistakes happen and no one is perfect. TRL is a place I would still bring my car gladly, because no shop is 100% perfect all the time but Neal is a good guy I feel I can trust and I have faith in his work.

Still unfortunate you had to deal with that, but on the scale of terrible shop experiences I have heard about this ranks on the lower side, things could have been worse.
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Old 10-24-2019, 05:53 PM   #464
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^I showed this post to a couple friends and I got a good response. I’m not sure how to feel yet as we haven’t heard neal’s side.

Here’s what was said: “ Ok, I read that thread. Shit happens man. Neal fixed his wheel and gave a discount on tires. End of story. Don’t fucking hold that over his head about not caring about his customers. Plus if he brought Neal his parts to install and the cat was blown, well that’s a buyer beware situation, you release liability to an extent when you give parts to a shop to install instead of having them provide the parts. Plus Neal is a busy guy, I mean he’s not obligated to be crazy fucking concerned over the car like the owner is. If it’s his daily, that is his fault to an extent playing with fire on a daily.“
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Old 10-24-2019, 06:22 PM   #465
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Wait, I'm having a hard time understanding why youre so upset?

- Neal should of been more "concerned" with your car having a rough idle.
- He backed your car into a lift and damaged a tire/wheel, which was later remedied.
- He left the flex-fuel plug hanging and missing a zip tie.
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Old 10-24-2019, 06:38 PM   #466
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That is unfortunate, bummer you had to deal with that, I know he is a busy guy and possibly too busy. From my experience with other shops and TRL, I still would rather trust Neal. He is honest and all my experiences at the shop have been great, seems like a string of mishaps and unlucky circumstances. To each their own, but I've seen Doctors make mistakes, Police make mistakes, I make mistakes, because mistakes happen and no one is perfect. TRL is a place I would still bring my car gladly, because no shop is 100% perfect all the time but Neal is a good guy I feel I can trust and I have faith in his work.

Still unfortunate you had to deal with that, but on the scale of terrible shop experiences I have heard about this ranks on the lower side, things could have been worse.
Your response is almost entirely about the wheel issue.

The thing is, my experience above was almost completely about customer service and customer retention, or, rather, the lack of those from Neal.

Waiting basically a month to have someone in for troubleshooting of a problematic car, regardless of what may be suspected of as going on is ridiculous, especially given how much I paid for the work.

This ranks on the lower side, things could've been worse?

Have you driven around for a month before with a misfiring engine? Where every stop light, every stop in rush hour traffic the engine began to shake uncontrollably, the CEL flashed on, and you had no idea what's going on because you're not a mechanic? And the one mechanic that most recently touched your engine, that might be able to help diagnose what's going on, can't even make 20 minutes of time available from the start for a datalog?

Maybe that ranks on the lower side for you. But you know what could've been worse? If my engine blew because I was waiting for the mechanic that I had previously trusted to work on my car to squeeze me in just long enough to do, at the very least, some basic checks.

I'm glad you trust Neal. That's great.

Like I said twice in my review, everybody has different experiences. My issue is how Neal handled it.

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^I showed this post to a couple friends and I got a good response. I’m not sure how to feel yet as we haven’t heard neal’s side.

Here’s what was said: “ Ok, I read that thread. Shit happens man. Neal fixed his wheel and gave a discount on tires. End of story. Don’t fucking hold that over his head about not caring about his customers. Plus if he brought Neal his parts to install and the cat was blown, well that’s a buyer beware situation, you release liability to an extent when you give parts to a shop to install instead of having them provide the parts. Plus Neal is a busy guy, I mean he’s not obligated to be crazy fucking concerned over the car like the owner is. If it’s his daily, that is his fault to an extent playing with fire on a daily.“
I think your friends should just post what they want to say, rather than using you as a middleman?

He didn't give a "discount" on tires. Not sure where your "friend(s)" got that from? Neal told me since I was already planning to get tires, I could have the wheel repaired and get new tires at the same time from his tire guy who "has good deals."

Guess what? A lot of shops have "good deals" because they buy tires in bulk/have partnerships with distributors.

That's not a 'discount'.

As far as the header:

1. if the cat was blown from the start, which I'm 99% sure it wasn't, then why wouldn't the shop want to mention it and offer to have the customer back in with one that's in working order? Why would a shop in good faith basically let the customer's car get ruined? How does that make any sense, whatsoever?

2. The engine was mostly fine up until mid-August. If the cat was blown from the start, it would've behaved the same and caused misfires from the start, as bad as they were at the very end.

Of course there's some risk modifying a car, I think we all accept that.

The problem is when you spend nearly 2000 dollars on a tune and install, and wind up coming out of that back with stock parts and tune. And in that timeframe, the shop doesn't bother to even try seeing if they can help you sooner than later.

I never even asked Neal to drop everything for me until the very end, weeks after we'd been discussing the issues. From the beginning I was asking if he could get me in, rather than me trying to force an appointment by just showing up (which friends told me I should do) first thing in the morning or demanding an appointment at a set time and day.

And as far as concern, if anything I would've hoped he'd be concerned that he's not working well enough with a customer, a customer I'd assume he wanted to have back for further paying work.

If I showed the same lack of concern to customers at my job, I would be out of a job and those customers potentially wouldn't re-up their contracts with my work.
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Old 10-24-2019, 06:40 PM   #467
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The responses indicate that there seems to be some serious issues with reading comprehension in this thread.
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Old 10-25-2019, 03:51 AM   #468
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I guess it's nice that all the keyboard warriors are coming out of the woodwork to defend Neal and place the blame on the customer.

Probably because a negative review goes against the previously established trend of overly positive reviews. That's great that the majority of customers had extraordinarily positive experiences with TRL, but the true measure of a business/shop is not how well they can do routine installs, but how they handle a situation when something isn't quite right mechanically on a car they touched or a customer is unhappy for a particular reason. Only then are a business's true colors brought to light. In this case what I gathered from reading the detailed account and timeline provided, is that TRL failed on providing good customer service to a valued customer.

Another poster mentioned that "doctors make mistakes", apparently trying to play the "everyones human" angle. That's admirable, but do you know what doctors also do? They cancel routine appointments so that they can prioritize and treat patients that need more urgent attention. I get that Neal is busy and is a small independent shop, but I don't believe that means that customer service and the ability to recognize the urgency & severity of a customer's situation is no longer possible. Cancel a routine parts installation appointment to accommodate a more urgent matter. It's a simple concept. While they might be frustrated initially at having to reschedule, if you explain why you're doing it they'd likely be impressed that you're taking the initiative to address a customer's urgent concern over their part install. They'd see how you go out of your way to provide a high level of service for your valued customers.

Again, it's bizarre to me to see this reaction to an emotionless and factual account of a customer's experience. There's people who seem to be personally offended that someone would dare mention Neal in anything less than a 100% perfect light. "Don’t fucking hold that over his head about not caring about his customers.", "he’s not obligated to be crazy fucking concerned over the car like the owner is.", etc.

These reactions are likely because every other review is incredibly positive, nearly putting Neal on an imaginary pedestal and affirming that he is the undisputed god of working on twins. Sometimes when people have less than ideal experiences, they don't post about them on public forums or review sites if they're more reserved or would rather just move on. That doesn't mean they never happened.

Personally, I've had several experiences where I silently questioned Neal's professionalism but I'm not the type to cause a big scene or conflict about it. But still, they happened.

Installing the lines on a oil catch can backwards and needing to drive back to the shop to have it corrected. Observing a blow torch being used to clear spider webs from behind the front bumper, which put an intense open flame next to delicate wiring instead of wiping them away with a simple rag like most shops would. Not torquing bolts to the manufacturer provided specifications. Using an incorrect exhaust gasket that leaked and leaving it to the customer who paid for the installation to source the correct gasket and fix it on their own. Not correctly torquing down the center bolt on an oil cooler which resulted in a small oil leak when it loosened up after switching out the oil filter. Having to reroute the wiring on a FF kit because it was done sloppily and hastily as opposed to how it was described in the manufacturer's instructions. Taking my car out for street tuning but instead driving it directly to a taco truck for lunch, and then after starting it back up unplugging my dash cam so I'd have no record of what was done or said. Why unplug a customer's dash cam unless you are hiding something or not being honest and respectful? Of course I'm not suggesting anything malicious, but it does make you wonder.

So let's just be willing to admit that yes, people make mistakes, and that it's OK for customers to share their experiences on a public forum. If you don't agree with the content of the review then you can certainly disregard it and move on.

Personally, I find negative reviews valuable as it provides honest feedback about a customer's experience. These can be great learning moments, not only for other existing and future customers to learn about a business, but also for the business owner.

They can recognize where a failure or weak point happened, acknowledge it, then make a plan to address/improve it and continue to move forward, holding themselves and their business to a higher standard as a result.
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Old 10-25-2019, 09:38 AM   #469
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Old 10-25-2019, 10:37 AM   #470
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I guess it's nice that all the keyboard warriors are coming out of the woodwork to defend Neal and place the blame on the customer.

Probably because a negative review goes against the previously established trend of overly positive reviews. That's great that the majority of customers had extraordinarily positive experiences with TRL, but the true measure of a business/shop is not how well they can do routine installs, but how they handle a situation when something isn't quite right mechanically on a car they touched or a customer is unhappy for a particular reason. Only then are a business's true colors brought to light. In this case what I gathered from reading the detailed account and timeline provided, is that TRL failed on providing good customer service to a valued customer.

Another poster mentioned that "doctors make mistakes", apparently trying to play the "everyones human" angle. That's admirable, but do you know what doctors also do? They cancel routine appointments so that they can prioritize and treat patients that need more urgent attention. I get that Neal is busy and is a small independent shop, but I don't believe that means that customer service and the ability to recognize the urgency & severity of a customer's situation is no longer possible. Cancel a routine parts installation appointment to accommodate a more urgent matter. It's a simple concept. While they might be frustrated initially at having to reschedule, if you explain why you're doing it they'd likely be impressed that you're taking the initiative to address a customer's urgent concern over their part install. They'd see how you go out of your way to provide a high level of service for your valued customers.

Again, it's bizarre to me to see this reaction to an emotionless and factual account of a customer's experience. There's people who seem to be personally offended that someone would dare mention Neal in anything less than a 100% perfect light. "Don’t fucking hold that over his head about not caring about his customers.", "he’s not obligated to be crazy fucking concerned over the car like the owner is.", etc.

These reactions are likely because every other review is incredibly positive, nearly putting Neal on an imaginary pedestal and affirming that he is the undisputed god of working on twins. Sometimes when people have less than ideal experiences, they don't post about them on public forums or review sites if they're more reserved or would rather just move on. That doesn't mean they never happened.

Personally, I've had several experiences where I silently questioned Neal's professionalism but I'm not the type to cause a big scene or conflict about it. But still, they happened.

Installing the lines on a oil catch can backwards and needing to drive back to the shop to have it corrected. Observing a blow torch being used to clear spider webs from behind the front bumper, which put an intense open flame next to delicate wiring instead of wiping them away with a simple rag like most shops would. Not torquing bolts to the manufacturer provided specifications. Using an incorrect exhaust gasket that leaked and leaving it to the customer who paid for the installation to source the correct gasket and fix it on their own. Not correctly torquing down the center bolt on an oil cooler which resulted in a small oil leak when it loosened up after switching out the oil filter. Having to reroute the wiring on a FF kit because it was done sloppily and hastily as opposed to how it was described in the manufacturer's instructions. Taking my car out for street tuning but instead driving it directly to a taco truck for lunch, and then after starting it back up unplugging my dash cam so I'd have no record of what was done or said. Why unplug a customer's dash cam unless you are hiding something or not being honest and respectful? Of course I'm not suggesting anything malicious, but it does make you wonder.

So let's just be willing to admit that yes, people make mistakes, and that it's OK for customers to share their experiences on a public forum. If you don't agree with the content of the review then you can certainly disregard it and move on.

Personally, I find negative reviews valuable as it provides honest feedback about a customer's experience. These can be great learning moments, not only for other existing and future customers to learn about a business, but also for the business owner.

They can recognize where a failure or weak point happened, acknowledge it, then make a plan to address/improve it and continue to move forward, holding themselves and their business to a higher standard as a result.
If it had been a dealership that had that service the people defending TRL would be gathering their torches and pitchforks to burn them to the ground. But apparently since they are a popular speed shop they can do no wrong.
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Old 10-25-2019, 07:43 PM   #471
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If it had been a dealership that had that service the people defending TRL would be gathering their torches and pitchforks to burn them to the ground. But apparently since they are a popular speed shop they can do no wrong.
I don't think anyone has said Neal can do no wrong in this thread and @spike021 because I forgot to copy your post.

I personally don't think there's any reason to defend a shop unless they're paying you. I don't want this to be a repeat of the dude who buys food for Works Motorsports.

There are certain parts of the story at hand that I and I assume others find unfair to Neal.

1. Did Neal eat the cost of fixing the wheel before OP made this post? If so then this is a non-issue.

2. Did Neal use his shop's discount to hook up OP with new tires at cost? Then that is Neal applying his shop's discount to the customer, which is in fact a discount.

3. Did OP buy his JDL catted header from TRL? There's obviously no way of knowing now why it blew, but I'd like to know if there has been any contact made to JDL about this issue because a cat should not come apart like that so early in it's life. I know you Tcoat, of all people, are a fan of contacting the proper channels right away to get an issue resolved instead of dilly dallying with the closest, easiest, potentially improper channels.

4. Finally, I myself have had contact issues with Neal and have had issues similar to what is being described right now, so I do need to point out that Neal's shop isn't the best for people who don't already work on their own cars. Neal is very skilled with this chassis and gets big jobs done fast for very little money, and there may be imperfections after the job is completed.

Again I didn't wanna come off as a **** with my original post especially with quoting my friend lol I now realize that was probably a bad idea.
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Old 10-25-2019, 10:30 PM   #472
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I don't think anyone has said Neal can do no wrong in this thread and @spike021 because I forgot to copy your post.

I personally don't think there's any reason to defend a shop unless they're paying you. I don't want this to be a repeat of the dude who buys food for Works Motorsports.

There are certain parts of the story at hand that I and I assume others find unfair to Neal.

1. Did Neal eat the cost of fixing the wheel before OP made this post? If so then this is a non-issue.

2. Did Neal use his shop's discount to hook up OP with new tires at cost? Then that is Neal applying his shop's discount to the customer, which is in fact a discount.

3. Did OP buy his JDL catted header from TRL? There's obviously no way of knowing now why it blew, but I'd like to know if there has been any contact made to JDL about this issue because a cat should not come apart like that so early in it's life. I know you Tcoat, of all people, are a fan of contacting the proper channels right away to get an issue resolved instead of dilly dallying with the closest, easiest, potentially improper channels.

4. Finally, I myself have had contact issues with Neal and have had issues similar to what is being described right now, so I do need to point out that Neal's shop isn't the best for people who don't already work on their own cars. Neal is very skilled with this chassis and gets big jobs done fast for very little money, and there may be imperfections after the job is completed.

Again I didn't wanna come off as a **** with my original post especially with quoting my friend lol I now realize that was probably a bad idea.
1. He ate the cost of fixing the wheel. The resolution of that issue is a non-issue. That shouldn’t distract from the fact that he wasn’t careful of his surroundings. And also, as mentioned in my original post, it was a big enough shock (watch and listen to the video, the dashcam mic is in the front of the car, not the rear) that it could’ve messed with my alignment/suspension. Now, maybe it didn’t. But there was also no offer to put my car back on the lift to double-check things.

2. He never hooked me up. He gave me that as an option. I already had set plans at the time with a shop where I live that I trust to get tires this month, using their “discount” (if we’re going to call shop deals discounts here). Again, a discount implies doing something to help out given the situation in a way that I wouldn’t get elsewhere.

3. OP (me, clearly) bought used JDL headers. That’s not the problem here. The issue of the cat getting damaged was only mentioned because that is the possible root of my actual misfiring problem.

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a fan of contacting the proper channels right away to get an issue resolved instead of dilly dallying with the closest, easiest, potentially improper channels.
Why should I have done this and expected a response, but I couldn’t contact the shop that installed it, which would also be a respective “proper channel”, to get said issue resolved? Why is this considered “improper”? Neal was the last person to touch them. So again, if he noticed an issue with them from the beginning, then isn’t it his responsibility to politely let the customer know they may have a malfunctioning part and that he doesn’t feel comfortable installing it and working on a tune based on it? And also, we didn’t know the header was damaged until the day he finally had me in the shop.

Which brings us back to…

4. Yes. Thanks for backing up one of the most important issues from my experience. Neal is incredibly difficult to get ahold of, and the times that I did, which I surprisingly did many times, he still wouldn’t find time to get me in.

Quote:
so I do need to point out that Neal's shop isn't the best for people who don't already work on their own cars
So.... Neal shouldn’t be counted on as a reliable shop for anyone who’s considered a novice when it comes to experience working with their car.

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Neal is very skilled with this chassis and gets big jobs done fast for very little money, and there may be imperfections after the job is completed.
So.... you just contradicted yourself and admitted that Neal shouldn’t be trusted to do a professional job. If he’s doing “big jobs” so “fast” that there “may be imperfections after the job is completed” then I’d be very apprehensive having him do any kind of big job again. I guess it’s a good thing he only left “imperfections” on such a simple install as a flex fuel kit and headers, because I wouldn’t want to be in a place where he’d left imperfections on a “completed” supercharger/turbocharger install. Or coilovers with incorrect torque specs. Or, you get the idea.

But thanks for proving my points. I appreciate it.

And again, since I know my side will come into question again: my primary concerns are with his customer service and carefulness with customers (or lack thereof). The wheel issue in terms of fixing it is resolved.
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Old 10-25-2019, 11:03 PM   #473
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Here's my experience with Neal. He's a chill guy, and at the time when I wanted my brake fluid changed (I think this was 2015 or 2016 when he had his Torque special going on in his first shop???), was the closest shop to me at the time that people were going to. Figured it would be cake for Neal for this job and nothing would go wrong. Well, he dropped his impact gun socket onto the lip of my WedsSport wheel and did not even mention it to me. Of course I heard this and went to the corner he was working on, and what do I see, a slight indentation on the lip where the socket fell onto (he later wrapped his socket with some kind of felt material as he probably saw me looking at the damage). Keep in mind, none of my wheels had any prior damage to it whatsoever. I'm partially at fault for not saying anything to him then, but oh well.

Thought all was good, but as time went by, my brake pedal became softer and softer, and the brake fluid getting darker and darker. To the point of not really slowing down until half the pedal was down. Not even 12 months later, fearing another chance of damaging my wheels, I decided to change the brake fluid myself, and what do I find? Air. I found air in the line. After changing them, and to this day (probably same amount of time, if not more, from when Neal changed the fluid to where the pedal required half the travel to start stopping), the car starts stopping at the top of the brake pedal travel.

I'm not sure if it was his pump that caused the air, or maybe he was rushing the job since that was all I was having done.

I also ruled out the Torque being the factor since I used it on my Yaris when I flushed the brake fluid in it, and it didn't get dark that quickly (still hasn't actually, and it's been quite some time and miles with it).


Now, like I said, Neal is a chill guy to hang out with, but sad to say I don't think I would bring my car(s) back to him for work.
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Old 10-26-2019, 01:43 PM   #474
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1. He ate the cost of fixing the wheel. The resolution of that issue is a non-issue. That shouldn’t distract from the fact that he wasn’t careful of his surroundings. And also, as mentioned in my original post, it was a big enough shock (watch and listen to the video, the dashcam mic is in the front of the car, not the rear) that it could’ve messed with my alignment/suspension. Now, maybe it didn’t. But there was also no offer to put my car back on the lift to double-check things.

2. He never hooked me up. He gave me that as an option. I already had set plans at the time with a shop where I live that I trust to get tires this month, using their “discount” (if we’re going to call shop deals discounts here). Again, a discount implies doing something to help out given the situation in a way that I wouldn’t get elsewhere.

3. OP (me, clearly) bought used JDL headers. That’s not the problem here. The issue of the cat getting damaged was only mentioned because that is the possible root of my actual misfiring problem.



Why should I have done this and expected a response, but I couldn’t contact the shop that installed it, which would also be a respective “proper channel”, to get said issue resolved? Why is this considered “improper”? Neal was the last person to touch them. So again, if he noticed an issue with them from the beginning, then isn’t it his responsibility to politely let the customer know they may have a malfunctioning part and that he doesn’t feel comfortable installing it and working on a tune based on it? And also, we didn’t know the header was damaged until the day he finally had me in the shop.

Which brings us back to…

4. Yes. Thanks for backing up one of the most important issues from my experience. Neal is incredibly difficult to get ahold of, and the times that I did, which I surprisingly did many times, he still wouldn’t find time to get me in.



So.... Neal shouldn’t be counted on as a reliable shop for anyone who’s considered a novice when it comes to experience working with their car.



So.... you just contradicted yourself and admitted that Neal shouldn’t be trusted to do a professional job. If he’s doing “big jobs” so “fast” that there “may be imperfections after the job is completed” then I’d be very apprehensive having him do any kind of big job again. I guess it’s a good thing he only left “imperfections” on such a simple install as a flex fuel kit and headers, because I wouldn’t want to be in a place where he’d left imperfections on a “completed” supercharger/turbocharger install. Or coilovers with incorrect torque specs. Or, you get the idea.

But thanks for proving my points. I appreciate it.

And again, since I know my side will come into question again: my primary concerns are with his customer service and carefulness with customers (or lack thereof). The wheel issue in terms of fixing it is resolved.

So have you tried contacting the guy who sold you the header? Does your car run fine now that you’re on a stock tune again?
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Old 10-26-2019, 09:03 PM   #475
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So have you tried contacting the guy who sold you the header? Does your car run fine now that you’re on a stock tune again?
Those questions aren’t related to my experience with Neal or the point of this thread, so if you have further personal questions related to the current state of my car please submit them via private message.
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Old 10-29-2019, 09:00 PM   #476
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Wow this is an amazing thing to come back to. There is so much to respond to, you guys are sad. You have an issue, come talk to me. Don't blast me online to suite your ego.

First of all Josh. You are the most impatient person I have ever dealt with. You messaged Zach, Mike and I all on our personal instagrams and facebooks well after hours. You chose to modify your car. Problems occur, and of course they don't go by your schedule. Also, I am generally booked 2-3 weeks out year round. this isn't something new, and as I explained in email, its not easy to just get people in. You aren't the only person on the planet that needs help, and we are very busy. We tried our best to Internet Diagnose a MECHANICAL problem, that was caused by your supplied USED part. I don't know what you expect man, but this was pretty textbook diag on our part.

When a car is having issues, you don't just chuck parts at it. Also, left out the fact that you paid for NONE OF IT. 3 hours I spent on your car. I apologized, I was flustered, and I have NEVER done something like that. I had a car on that lift for 3 weeks waiting on parts, and I misjudged the lift arm now that it was gone. You call that mishandling, I call that a mistake. You then demanded a full set of wheels, because you wouldn't even try a wheel repair guy, and I offered you COST on a set of tires. Nothing will make you happy apparently and I'm sorry you had a bad experience.

For the rest of you guys coming out of the woodwork! Bring this shit up at the time! What is the point of complaining about it now. Have you never made a single mistake working on a car? How many shops let you see what they are doing, and let you be in the shop while its being done. It's not a right, its a privilege. Its a trust I've built between my customers and me. You see the work I do, you get to watch me do it, and if I mess up, guess what, you're right there breathing down my neck. Have a little fucking compassion.

You want to know whats really up. My mother in law died 3 weeks ago she's been sick for months, and I have spent nearly every weekend driving 2 hours north to see her. We were extremely close. My fiancé is completely destroyed, our life is extremely hectic. My entire family is under evacuation from the fires and this is the kind of shit I have to deal with.

Most people would be grateful for the service I have performed in the community for the last 4 years. I was literally just another guy going to meets, and enjoying these cars and saw a need. I have sacrificed a lot to build my business and try, and I can with 100% certainty tell you, shops like mine are going extinct, and the kind of reaction and witch hunt shit, forums like this, and facebook promote are no help.
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