Brake failure at the race track

[biggie]

Originally Posted by CSG David

We can help supply you with the correct parts as necessary.

You've got PM

[Gt86Force]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

"works for me =/= works for you"

Yes, you're absolutely right!
But from my experience that is the minimum config. for tracking your car.
I've been to Monza (a heavily brake intense track in Italy, it's one of the fastest in europe) without major issues. There was fading (a lot) but nothing dangerous, you can sense it 3 corners before the main straight. I've never found myself completely without brakes.

I think the DS2500 (or similar compound) is the minimum if you track your car, and if you are not using semi tires, you're on stock power and still use the car on the street BBK or racing compounds are overkill or sometimes dangerous (on the street).

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Gt86Force

Yes, you're absolutely right!
But from my experience that is the minimum config. for tracking your car.
I've been to Monza (a heavily brake intense track in Italy, it's one of the fastest in europe) without major issues. There was fading (a lot) but nothing dangerous, you can sense it 3 corners before the main straight. I've never found myself completely without brakes.

I think the DS2500 (or similar compound) is the minimum if you track your car, and if you are not using semi tires, you're on stock power and still use the car on the street BBK or racing compounds are overkill or sometimes dangerous (on the street).

Fading is a major issue, especially for a novice that may not realize they are fading, and then suddenly finding themselves without brakes.

In fact, brake pedal behavior change is not acceptable at all!

Imagine if your street car on the street had a variable brake pedal and you sometimes have to press the pedal further/harder than other times!

[biggie]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Fading is a major issue, especially for a novice that may not realize they are fading, and then suddenly finding themselves without brakes.

In fact, brake pedal behavior change is not acceptable at all!

Imagine if your street car on the street had a variable brake pedal and you sometimes have to press the pedal further/harder than other times!

Truth be told, I did noticed the brakes were starting to fade but I did not expected to lose them completely. So I'm still a noob, I guess

[wparsons]

It's a bit mind blowing to read people saying they'll feel pad fade for multiple corners before they'll back off. If the pads are overheated, back off and let them cool before you end up in a wall.

[Icecreamtruk]

Originally Posted by wparsons

It's a bit mind blowing to read people saying they'll feel pad fade for multiple corners before they'll back off. If the pads are overheated, back off and let them cool before you end up in a wall.

I did that mistake once, felt the brakes faded, was 1 corner away from finishing a lap, decided to finish it anyways. That one corner was the scariest moment I've lived so far, specially since it ended on a wall. Decided to send the car sideways to get it to stop, worked but I think it was pure luck. Never again

[biggie]

Originally Posted by wparsons

It's a bit mind blowing to read people saying they'll feel pad fade for multiple corners before they'll back off. If the pads are overheated, back off and let them cool before you end up in a wall.

People makes mistakes, the important thing is to not repeat them. I certainly learned my lesson.

Anyway, just ordered Stoptech slotted rotors and Carbotech XP10 pads (already got the stoptech brake lines). Hope I took the right decision...

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by wparsons

It's a bit mind blowing to read people saying they'll feel pad fade for multiple corners before they'll back off. If the pads are overheated, back off and let them cool before you end up in a wall.

It's all about lap times for people, but the real winner is the person who can drive their car home in the same condition they brought it to the track.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by biggie

People makes mistakes, the important thing is to not repeat them. I certainly learn my lesson.

Anyway, just ordered Stoptech slotted rotors and Carbotech XP10 pads (already got the stoptech brake lines). Hope I took the right decision...

Great entry level pad!

Support the folks who support you!

[JRitt]

Gents,
As an FYI...we recently took the Ferodo DS2500 to 1500°F on our dyno and they didn't fade. As noted by others, they are a fantastic hybrid pad. That said, switching between street and track pads is still optimal.

[churchx]

JRitt: btw, as you guys have brake dyno .. what do you think of making some testing roundup on multiple cross vendor pads? One thing is vendor charts, that are hard to cross-compare just like power dyno charts with no baseline and from different dyno rigs, another would be real dyno testing/combined chart of friction graphs vs temps of multiple vendor, multiple class (hybrid/track/endurance) pads ..
From what i understand, no real usage on car no matter how good driver will get close to reducing margin of error and repeatability/consistency of what brake dyno may provide?

[NoHaveMSG]

Also seeing the consistency of the coefficient of friction across the temperature range

I am sure that would be asking a lot though

[Tristor]

Originally Posted by Gt86Force

Go with stock rotors, steel brake lines, RBF600 (or similar) and Ferodo DS2500.
I've tracked a lot with that combo without issues, and stil daily driving the car.

I started with Ferodo DS2500, and they are just not suitable for any serious track use. They are fine for a beginner who is doing occasional track days and primarily daily driving, they are not suitable for serious track use at all.

I don't want to be that guy, but based on some of the advice in this thread, it's really important to note that for critical safety systems you should be careful about making recommendations. Just because something worked for you does not mean it will work well for everyone, and most importantly, faster drivers are harder on critical subsystems. If you are finding the DS2500 (and RBF600 for that matter) sufficient on track, no offense but you're a slow driver. Neither of these are suitable for hard use.

I think it was Terry Fair that made the point that you should compare your laptimes on your preferred local track to what Spec Miata folks are doing on average. If you aren't beating the Spec Miata average lap time, you're slow and your experiences may not be suitable to extrapolate to someone else who is using their car harder than you are.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Tristor

I started with Ferodo DS2500, and they are just not suitable for any serious track use. They are fine for a beginner who is doing occasional track days and primarily daily driving, they are not suitable for serious track use at all.

I don't want to be that guy, but based on some of the advice in this thread, it's really important to note that for critical safety systems you should be careful about making recommendations. Just because something worked for you does not mean it will work well for everyone, and most importantly, faster drivers are harder on critical subsystems. If you are finding the DS2500 (and RBF600 for that matter) sufficient on track, no offense but you're a slow driver. Neither of these are suitable for hard use.

I think it was Terry Fair that made the point that you should compare your laptimes on your preferred local track to what Spec Miata folks are doing on average. If you aren't beating the Spec Miata average lap time, you're slow and your experiences may not be suitable to extrapolate to someone else who is using their car harder than you are.

The quick 86CUP stock class guys beat the Spec Miata lap records, as a reference point.