e85 or headers

[Hades]

Originally Posted by lutfy

Since I had the OFT and didnt want to get EcuTec. I went forward with PTuning headers along with @steve99 custom maps for my car. Steve sent me a baseline and we sent it back and forth (data logs from OFT) until it was fine tuned with zero knocks and such. Car is MUCH more lively up top and power punch is phenominal. Map was optimized (curve etc) including camtiming matched to the PTuning header. I had to reduce hp up top to stay in class but mid range unaffected so we pulled timing a bit.

I could have used a bunch of local turners but went with Steve as his support was SPOT on. Always responsive, knowledgeable and would share (as to why its doing something vs here you go just upload it). Very happy and car holds track records for fastest NA FRS at two north east tracks. My goal was to "win" in my time trial class and Steve delivered just that.

No affiliation, just a happy customer.

Lutfy

This is very tempting. I might have to look into this. I'd like to stick with the OFT obviously for cost reasons, but the lack of vendor support is throwing that idea off. Everybody seems to say that Ecutek is the only option for fast track times, but it sounds like you are having a different experience.

[lutfy]

Originally Posted by Hades

This is very tempting. I might have to look into this. I'd like to stick with the OFT obviously for cost reasons, but the lack of vendor support is throwing that idea off. Everybody seems to say that Ecutek is the only option for fast track times, but it sounds like you are having a different experience.

Having spent for OFT I was not willing to pay to sell after at a cost, get new ECUtek lic, tune, dyno etc. Well I really did NOT want to. After chatting with Steve and his knowhow, I was convinced that I was on the right path. He helped me understand the flat foot feature too.

So long and short we have a fantastic resource available to us!

Lutfy

[Xxyion]

Not sure why noone has mentioned this. But your OFT should come with an E85 Stage 2 tune. Stage 2 generally means headers. This will allow you to run E85 WITH headers and is tuned for it. Later on down the line you can upgrade to a flexfuel kit and either get a custom tune through Shiv or you can run ECUtek and get a custom tune from whoever you decide to go with.


Also you wont have to pay for two tunes with the OFT. Assuming you've looked through the OFT at all, you should have seen that it came with multiple OTS tunes. All of the OFT tunes are free. You can download them off the website.

Also OFT is partnered with FFTEC and have their own Flex Fuel kit. Since you already have an OFT. You can buy the FFTEC Flexfuel kit for 549$. At that point you only need to pay (or maybe not) for a custom tune from Shiv since you already have your OFT.

For comparison. If you decided to go ECUtek, you wouldnt be able to use your OFT anymore for tuning. Also cost wise, here would be a breakdown:

Delicious FF Kit with Ace Header tune package: 1625.00$
Delicious FF Kit with Stage 2 tune Package: 1595.00$
OFT FF Kit + custom e-tune: 1300$ (assuming you bought brand new)

Going OFT (since you already bought an OFT) is easily your cheapest option but by no means is it also the worst option. Delicious has a great reputation granted (i'm going to run the Delicious FF kit myself) but Shiv makes a quality product and every single person i've talked to who has gotten a custom tune from him has been nothing but happy with it.

[Hades]

Originally Posted by Xxyion

Not sure why noone has mentioned this. But your OFT should come with an E85 Stage 2 tune. Stage 2 generally means headers. This will allow you to run E85 WITH headers and is tuned for it. Later on down the line you can upgrade to a flexfuel kit and either get a custom tune through Shiv or you can run ECUtek and get a custom tune from whoever you decide to go with.


Also you wont have to pay for two tunes with the OFT. Assuming you've looked through the OFT at all, you should have seen that it came with multiple OTS tunes. All of the OFT tunes are free. You can download them off the website.

Yes, i understand that (which you should know since I've mentioned I'm running the e85 OTS map now). The main concern is a rational one, since of course Shiv will focus more effort on the UEL map (due to selling an UEL header) than the EL map (which is the header I'm more interested in). This is backed up by multiple claims by him that the UEL map gives more power than the EL one, especially since multiple other vendors dyno graphs show the opposite evidence.

Therefore, I'm more interested in another vendor for tuning who has more experience tuning the EL headers I'm interested in.

[Xxyion]

Originally Posted by Hades

Yes, i understand that (which you should know since I've mentioned I'm running the e85 OTS map now). The main concern is a rational one, since of course Shiv will focus more effort on the UEL map (due to selling an UEL header) than the EL map (which is the header I'm more interested in). This is backed up by multiple claims by him that the UEL map gives more power than the EL one, especially since multiple other vendors dyno graphs show the opposite evidence.

Therefore, I'm more interested in another vendor for tuning who has more experience tuning the EL headers I'm interested in.

Thats fair. I'm not sure what Shiv's experience is with tuning UEL vs EL, but i also wouldnt rely too heavily on Dyno numbers to make your judgment.

And Shiv isnt the type of person to focus more on one over the other because of preference. He's a smart guy who understands the market. Most people want UEL so his OTS tunes reflect that. However i can guarantee he will put as much effort custom tuning your EL headers as he does a UEL setup because he is dedicated to his customer base.

[Teseo]

Originally Posted by lutfy

Since I had the OFT and didnt want to get EcuTec. I went forward with PTuning headers along with @steve99 custom maps for my car. Steve sent me a baseline and we sent it back and forth (data logs from OFT) until it was fine tuned with zero knocks and such. Car is MUCH more lively up top and power punch is phenominal. Map was optimized (curve etc) including camtiming matched to the PTuning header. I had to reduce hp up top to stay in class but mid range unaffected so we pulled timing a bit.

I could have used a bunch of local turners but went with Steve as his support was SPOT on. Always responsive, knowledgeable and would share (as to why its doing something vs here you go just upload it). Very happy and car holds track records for fastest NA FRS at two north east tracks. My goal was to "win" in my time trial class and Steve delivered just that.

No affiliation, just a happy customer.

Lutfy

Damn so tempting going the same route with steve, props for steve aussie solutuons

[Amputechture]

Originally Posted by Xxyion

Not sure why noone has mentioned this. But your OFT should come with an E85 Stage 2 tune. Stage 2 generally means headers. This will allow you to run E85 WITH headers and is tuned for it. Later on down the line you can upgrade to a flexfuel kit and either get a custom tune through Shiv or you can run ECUtek and get a custom tune from whoever you decide to go with.


Also you wont have to pay for two tunes with the OFT. Assuming you've looked through the OFT at all, you should have seen that it came with multiple OTS tunes. All of the OFT tunes are free. You can download them off the website.

Also OFT is partnered with FFTEC and have their own Flex Fuel kit. Since you already have an OFT. You can buy the FFTEC Flexfuel kit for 549$. At that point you only need to pay (or maybe not) for a custom tune from Shiv since you already have your OFT.

For comparison. If you decided to go ECUtek, you wouldnt be able to use your OFT anymore for tuning. Also cost wise, here would be a breakdown:

Delicious FF Kit with Ace Header tune package: 1625.00$
Delicious FF Kit with Stage 2 tune Package: 1595.00$
OFT FF Kit + custom e-tune: 1300$ (assuming you bought brand new)

Going OFT (since you already bought an OFT) is easily your cheapest option but by no means is it also the worst option. Delicious has a great reputation granted (i'm going to run the Delicious FF kit myself) but Shiv makes a quality product and every single person i've talked to who has gotten a custom tune from him has been nothing but happy with it.

Or he could sell his tablet at the used market rate of 400ish and come out with a more cost effective setup, and better software.

[Amputechture]

When I was NA, stock header and E85 was a much more enjoyable power band than 93 and header was. You could always delete the cat out of your stock header also.

[Hades]

Hey guys, thanks for all the input. I'm actually thinking of just sticking with the OFT for now, and going with 91 tune + UEL headers. My reasoning is cost since I don't want to spend $3200 for ACE + Ecutek. I can always go Ecutek and/or FF kit later down the road.

Also, it sounds like we have a good resource for e-tuning with @steve99 which pretty much seals the deal (along with @lutfy's good experience). I think I'll experiment with the OFT some more before signing it off.

[Hades]

Originally Posted by Amputechture

When I was NA, stock header and E85 was a much more enjoyable power band than 93 and header was. You could always delete the cat out of your stock header also.

Which headers were you running while NA? Also, by more enjoyable power band, do you mean the entire power band, top end, and/or low end? I'm mainly just looking for some more low end torque for around town & cruising RPM.

[jasonojordan]

Originally Posted by Hades

Which headers were you running while NA? Also, by more enjoyable power band, do you mean the entire power band, top end, and/or low end? I'm mainly just looking for some more low end torque for around town & cruising RPM.

The e85 deff adds more grunt down low then just doing a header. Even with my ACE header it added some more grunt down low but not as much as the e85 did. This is all using the butt dyno nothing scientific.

[Hades]

Originally Posted by jasonojordan

The e85 deff adds more grunt down low then just doing a header. Even with my ACE header it added some more grunt down low but not as much as the e85 did. This is all using the butt dyno nothing scientific.

Thanks, kind of dissapointing since I was hoping for more low torque than current e85

[jasonojordan]

Originally Posted by Hades

Thanks, kind of dissapointing since I was hoping for more low torque than current e85

Don't get me wrong you will pick up more power with the headers then not having them and it is a fair amount its just not as large of a kick in the pants as you feel going from 93 to e85

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by Hades

Yes, i understand that (which you should know since I've mentioned I'm running the e85 OTS map now). The main concern is a rational one, since of course Shiv will focus more effort on the UEL map (due to selling an UEL header) than the EL map (which is the header I'm more interested in). This is backed up by multiple claims by him that the UEL map gives more power than the EL one, especially since multiple other vendors dyno graphs show the opposite evidence.

Therefore, I'm more interested in another vendor for tuning who has more experience tuning the EL headers I'm interested in.

Keep in mind this is based on normal EL headers. The Ace header is a very different animal compared to normal EL headers.

That said, I enjoy my Gruppe-S UEL with OFT E85 tune. If money was no object I would have gotten the Ace in a heartbeat.