Just Get No Respect

[Casey10s]

I have a BRZ with a JRSC and a few other mods. I have done several PDE sessions and Track Nights.

In driving the track, seeing how people act on the track, and talking to some of the other drivers, the BRZ/FR-S just get not respect. I noticed on the track that I don't get point byes very readily and a few other things that sort of show that these cars always don't get respect.

I talked to a driver of a Porsche 911 at the end of last night. In the last session, I kept closing up on him but a much faster car would come up behind me and I would drop off and leave the other car by. Happened 3 or 4 times. The Porsche driver said afterwards that he saw this slow reputation car come up behind (my BRZ) and was trying to figure if he should leave me pass. I told him what I had and said maybe he should have let me by. There were other times last night that I came up behind a car and it took a few passing areas before they left me by. Mostly I had to really get on their tail after initially closing on them pretty fast.


Realized that this is part of experience but sometimes it gets frustrating when there are 30 cars on the track. Where my car gets thrown for a little loop is when closing in on a car and I have to back off. This car is a momentum car in that if you keep it moving, it really goes. But as soon as I have brake where I normally don't, it takes a while to get back to where I was before the braking. This happens on straights where the car in front is not fully up to speed, I have to brake, and the other car takes off. Might take me another 1/4 to 1/2 a lap to get back on him again where the other car finally figures out I am faster than he is. By the way, my car looks intentionally stock until you look closer and see some of the mods.


Anyone else feel this way?

[Shark_Bait88]

What run group are you in? Novice or Intermediate?

If it's novice, which is where I run in a close to stock car, the point-by's will be a bit more of an issue as people in the group are still learning track etiquette and what it actually means when a car is faster than you. You get a lot of people in high hp cars that think they're faster because they pull away from you in the straights, even though you're right up their ass in the corners. Some of it is ego, most is inexperience on track. Same goes for taking a few passing zones before giving for a point-by. They might not see you, or just may not have felt comfortable having someone pass them there.

I've had a few times where they'd point-by the high hp cars that were behind them with me, and then not give me the point by. It can be frustrating, but then it's best to just pull into the pits, let the workers know what's going on, and pull back out to get away from that driver.

If you're in intermediate, they should know better.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Casey10s

I have a BRZ with a JRSC and a few other mods. I have done several PDE sessions and Track Nights.

In driving the track, seeing how people act on the track, and talking to some of the other drivers, the BRZ/FR-S just get not respect. I noticed on the track that I don't get point byes very readily and a few other things that sort of show that these cars always don't get respect.

I talked to a driver of a Porsche 911 at the end of last night. In the last session, I kept closing up on him but a much faster car would come up behind me and I would drop off and leave the other car by. Happened 3 or 4 times. The Porsche driver said afterwards that he saw this slow reputation car come up behind (my BRZ) and was trying to figure if he should leave me pass. I told him what I had and said maybe he should have let me by. There were other times last night that I came up behind a car and it took a few passing areas before they left me by. Mostly I had to really get on their tail after initially closing on them pretty fast.


Realized that this is part of experience but sometimes it gets frustrating when there are 30 cars on the track. Where my car gets thrown for a little loop is when closing in on a car and I have to back off. This car is a momentum car in that if you keep it moving, it really goes. But as soon as I have brake where I normally don't, it takes a while to get back to where I was before the braking. This happens on straights where the car in front is not fully up to speed, I have to brake, and the other car takes off. Might take me another 1/4 to 1/2 a lap to get back on him again where the other car finally figures out I am faster than he is. By the way, my car looks intentionally stock until you look closer and see some of the mods.


Anyone else feel this way?

That reputation comes from the average BRZ/FRS driver being quite slow. Don't hesitate to constantly present yourself in their mirrors, and bring up in download meetings that if they see you twice in their mirrors, that they need to let you by, because you are faster.

Build up a reputation for being quick, and you'll earn the respect you're due.

If you consider your car disposable, and you're in a run group with race cars.... I don't necessarily recommend this, but don't be afraid to steal apexes and dive in if they present an opening.

[Casey10s]

This is happening in the intermediate group. I do mention to the workers if someone is really not following the rules. I think in some cases it is an ego issue in leaving a poor BRZ pass you.


There was an evo on the track with me during the one session. He would get behind me sometimes at the end of the straight but I would leave him way behind by the time we get to the next straight so there was not a easy way to leave him by without bringing the car to an almost stop. If we were in the open, I would keep increasing the distance between us. Where he caught up was when we got caught in traffic either by passing cars or being passed (momentum issue). I talked to him afterwards and he said he was happy staying behind since his brakes were crappy and couldn't run the corners like I was.

[Shark_Bait88]

Originally Posted by Casey10s

This is happening in the intermediate group. I do mention to the workers if someone is really not following the rules. I think in some cases it is an ego issue in leaving a poor BRZ pass you.


There was an evo on the track with me during the one session. He would get behind me sometimes at the end of the straight but I would leave him way behind by the time we get to the next straight so there was not a easy way to leave him by without bringing the car to an almost stop. If we were in the open, I would keep increasing the distance between us. Where he caught up was when we got caught in traffic either by passing cars or being passed (momentum issue). I talked to him afterwards and he said he was happy staying behind since his brakes were crappy and couldn't run the corners like I was.

Then yeah, I'd say go with what Mike said and keep putting yourself in their mirrors. If they don't get the hint talk to them (nicely) after a session, and if they still don't then bring it up to someone in charge at the event.

[Casey10s]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

That reputation comes from the average BRZ/FRS driver being quite slow. Don't hesitate to constantly present yourself in their mirrors, and bring up in download meetings that if they see you twice in their mirrors, that they need to let you by, because you are faster.

Build up a reputation for being quick, and you'll earn the respect you're due.

If you consider your car disposable, and you're in a run group with race cars.... I don't necessarily recommend this, but don't be afraid to steal apexes and dive in if they present an opening.

Thanks for the advice. As I mention, my car looks somewhat stock. People will walk by when I have the hood up and notice the SC. When you see it sitting there with everything buttoned up, looks like stock. The exhaust system has a nice sound but I think some people think it is rice and not tied to performance.


The people who run there often are getting to know me. It is just that there are a good many cars that are different each time. But it is nice to see surprised Corvette drivers giving me a pass by (mostly because they are not highly experienced).

[DarkSunrise]

I may get flamed for saying this, but sometimes you have to ride the car in front of you hard through corners to get a point-by. On corner exit, you should plan ahead and figure out how to position yourself for the pass while carrying enough speed to pull on the car in front. Consider it a test of how well you can carry momentum even while going off-line to setup a pass.

I had this situation with a Focus RS this past weekend. I had dropped down to intermediate group (passing only on straights) to run with a friend. The first lap I caught the RS and decided to be nice and back off a little entering slower corners since passing wasn't allowed there. I closed the gap before the straight in order to setup the pass, but instead of letting me pass, he just took off. So the next lap, I was forced to ride him hard through the turns. It seemed like he didn't want to give a point-by (he nearly spun a few times trying to pull away), but I stayed on him and he quickly let me by when we hit the straight.

I'm really generous giving point-bys. But to get point-bys, I've learned it's best to clearly communicate to the driver in front that he's slowing you down. The only way to do this is to ride him through the corners. If he waves down the center of his car, that generally means he sees you there and will let you pass ASAP. You can back off at that point.

Also some drivers still won't let you pass even after you ride them hard for a couple of laps. In those cases it's best to come in to pit and ask for space. Maybe talk to the person afterwards and gently let them know they were holding you up. By the time you get to higher run groups, passing gets easier since corners are opened up. And point-bys become optional lol.

[Toyarzee]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

That reputation comes from the average BRZ/FRS driver being quite slow. Don't hesitate to constantly present yourself in their mirrors, and bring up in download meetings that if they see you twice in their mirrors, that they need to let you by, because you are faster.

Build up a reputation for being quick, and you'll earn the respect you're due.

If you consider your car disposable, and you're in a run group with race cars.... I don't necessarily recommend this, but don't be afraid to steal apexes and dive in if they present an opening.

I like this reply!

Anyone who shit talks any particular vehicle, rather than driver, is someone who doesn't respect the people, staff, and track time and takes everything for granted. I would certainly bring this up in download meetings, and if there arent any, I'd alert the staff anyway.

This may be an experience more isolated by region and organizer too... I've been passed by civics and Miatas while lapping vipers and Porsches, its all relative and entirely driver dependent. If your peers on track can't treat you as peers and with respect, then they certainly don't deserve yours and you can make your presence on the track more aggressively known.

Unless they are setting lap records, there shouldnt be room for elitist bullshit on an open/hpde track day.

[Icecreamtruk]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

That reputation comes from the average BRZ/FRS driver being quite slow. Don't hesitate to constantly present yourself in their mirrors, and bring up in download meetings that if they see you twice in their mirrors, that they need to let you by, because you are faster.

Build up a reputation for being quick, and you'll earn the respect you're due.

If you consider your car disposable, and you're in a run group with race cars.... I don't necessarily recommend this, but don't be afraid to steal apexes and dive in if they present an opening.

Very much my case up here in canada. The average twin driver is quite slow (myself included, only recently have I picked up the pace, a lot actually). To give you an example, in a 1min track (as in fastest twins run 60.XXX seconds), out of around 20 twins I've seen in track, less than 5 can actually run sub 62 seconds, only 2 can run in 60s mark (I run in the 61s). Usually average drivers would go between 65-68 so its not rare to imagine that if those same drivers have seen slow twins that they would assume they are mostly all slow.

About being in the mirrors, this is about the only thing that works for me. Be all over their mirrors, and I dont mean just close, but actually go from center to side so you are visible on several mirrors, he will notice the movement. Stealing apexes also works, but leave yourself some reserve if you dont trust the other driver's skill.

[OkieSnuffBox]

It's just ego from guys in more powerful cars that can't drive.

My local track is very tight and technical, how do you think the guy in a ZL1 Camaro on Hoosiers felt finally giving me a point by in my 1.6 Miata on 5 year old R888s.

Bring it up with whomever is running the event. I've watched guys be forced to have an instructor drive there car for a few sessions because they aren't getting how to behave on track.

[Casey10s]

Originally Posted by Casey10s

I talked to a driver of a Porsche 911 at the end of last night. In the last session, I kept closing up on him but a much faster car would come up behind me and I would drop off and leave the other car by. Happened 3 or 4 times. The Porsche driver said afterwards that he saw this slow reputation car come up behind (my BRZ) and was trying to figure if he should leave me pass. I told him what I had and said maybe he should have let me by.

For the Porsche, I just want to point out that I don't think he did anything wrong. I got close to him a few times and he would probably have left me by but a faster car caught up to me so I left the faster car by. After that I was back a ways and had to catch up again. I try not to hold up cars if I can. But he could have left me by if he wanted. He had chances.

[strat61caster]

It's gonna happen whether your in an 86, AE86 or Lamborghini, all the suggestions here are good.

The only thing I'd suggest that hasn't been emphasized nearly enough is just pulling off for a few seconds into the on-chute to get clear track. There are times I wish I had done that instead of wasting 3 laps getting by half a dozen slow cars. Some of my favorite sessions have been the ones I've gone out first, or last with a bit of a delay to get out ahead of the congestion.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

I may get flamed for saying this, but sometimes you have to ride the car in front of you hard through corners to get a point-by. On corner exit, you should plan ahead and figure out how to position yourself for the pass while carrying enough speed to pull on the car in front. Consider it a test of how well you can carry momentum even while going off-line to setup a pass.

I had this situation with a Focus RS this past weekend. I had dropped down to intermediate group (passing only on straights) to run with a friend. The first lap I caught the RS and decided to be nice and back off a little entering slower corners since passing wasn't allowed there. I closed the gap before the straight in order to setup the pass, but instead of letting me pass, he just took off. So the next lap, I was forced to ride him hard through the turns. It seemed like he didn't want to give a point-by (he nearly spun a few times trying to pull away), but I stayed on him and he quickly let me by when we hit the straight.

I'm really generous giving point-bys. But to get point-bys, I've learned it's best to clearly communicate to the driver in front that he's slowing you down. The only way to do this is to ride him through the corners. If he waves down the center of his car, that generally means he sees you there and will let you pass ASAP. You can back off at that point.

Also some drivers still won't let you pass even after you ride them hard for a couple of laps. In those cases it's best to come in to pit and ask for space. Maybe talk to the person afterwards and gently let them know they were holding you up. By the time you get to higher run groups, passing gets easier since corners are opened up. And point-bys become optional lol.

I've given love taps, in a HPDE, to people in fully prepped cars that are clearly not letting me by.

Not my fault if they can't guard their line in a "race condition" group, on slicks, against a car on street tires.

Keep in mind, this only happens in extreme cases when I'm held up for multiple laps.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Casey10s

This is happening in the intermediate group. I do mention to the workers if someone is really not following the rules. I think in some cases it is an ego issue in leaving a poor BRZ pass you.

But what are the rules for passing? Only on straights?

You have every right to flash your high beams or make a move to pass. If the other driver doesn't see you, bring it up to that driver or track organizers the next time you are in a down session.

Or do what I do: just go back into hot pits and ask the track workers to give you space.

If these don't solve your problems, then perhaps you should also consider running with another group or organizer.

-alex