follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > 1st Gens: Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 / Subaru BRZ > Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum

Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum The place to start for the Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 | GT86


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-21-2013, 03:15 AM   #29
Wise
Circle Work Clerk
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Drives: 2012 Mt. Fuji Red Toyota 86 GTS
Location: Melbourne, Aus
Posts: 928
Thanks: 204
Thanked 730 Times in 290 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Living in Aus it's easy to buy an S15. They're about 10-20k for a used example.

The problem is that it's incredibly hard to find a nice car that hasn't been modified or had crap like rice taillights and bodykits installed. Most of them are 100,000 km's+ these days.

Add to that even though the S15 came out in 1999 it was basically the same technology as the SR20DET S13 which is a 20 year old car.

I looked around for an S15 before deciding to buy an 86. After looking hard at car classifieds online I could never find a decent manual unmodified example that was sub 100,000 km's. If Nissan still sold them new it would be another story though.
Wise is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 04:45 AM   #30
nzer
Senior Member
 
nzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: 2012 Grey TRD GT86, 2015 VW Golf R
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 1,572
Thanks: 666
Thanked 942 Times in 540 Posts
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise View Post
Living in Aus it's easy to buy an S15. They're about 10-20k for a used example.

The problem is that it's incredibly hard to find a nice car that hasn't been modified or had crap like rice taillights and bodykits installed. Most of them are 100,000 km's+ these days.

Add to that even though the S15 came out in 1999 it was basically the same technology as the SR20DET S13 which is a 20 year old car.

I looked around for an S15 before deciding to buy an 86. After looking hard at car classifieds online I could never find a decent manual unmodified example that was sub 100,000 km's. If Nissan still sold them new it would be another story though.
Agreed @Wise

Same here in NZ. Mine had over 200,000km on it when I sold it. They either seem to be unmodified and high kms like mine was or low kms but badly modified.
__________________
nzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 05:32 AM   #31
Noble713
Senior Member
 
Noble713's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: MkIV Supra & Evo X
Location: Okinawa
Posts: 126
Thanks: 42
Thanked 40 Times in 29 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Used NA AT S15 (<$5,000) + LS3/T56 ($5,000?) + LS swap kit ($5,000) + your own sweat and other labor ($5,000) = 400+hp Japanese-styled coupe, roughly same weight as an 86, for less cost
__________________
1994 Toyota MkIV Supra (project car)
2007 JDM Mitsubishi Exo X GSR-SST (Daily driver)
Noble713 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 06:38 AM   #32
regal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: Scion FR-S/Toyota Yaris
Location: PA
Posts: 1,438
Thanks: 21
Thanked 316 Times in 232 Posts
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
IMHO the SR20DET the best 4 cylinder Japan ever made, and imho the ZN6 is the best chassis japan ever made.

since I don't need a 12 second car I'm satisfied with the FRS over the unobtainable S15, just hope to get rid of the torque dip.
__________________
2013 FRS Argento Silver 6MT

Mods:
Clear fender side lights
Tactrix ZA1JB01C 2014 Calib
regal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 07:42 AM   #33
mav1178
Senior Member
 
mav1178's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Drives: 2005 Toyota Camry
Location: 91745
Posts: 6,562
Thanks: 493
Thanked 6,092 Times in 3,029 Posts
Mentioned: 95 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise View Post
...The problem is that it's incredibly hard to find a nice car that hasn't been modified or had crap like rice taillights and bodykits installed. Most of them are 100,000 km's+ these days.
<snip>
If Nissan still sold them new it would be another story though.
That is basically how I feel... if I can find a pristine S15 that I can import and legalize, I'd get rid of my BRZ in a heartbeat.

But Nissan dropped the ball on this because they read the US market wrong, and never thought about importing and developing an entry level sports car with the right engine. A S14 with a 155HP KA24DE in 1998 was sold for around $25k, and for the same dollar amount today you can get a FRS or BRZ that has way better performance and platform design.

If, however, the S-chassis was continually developed, I think the subcompact tuner market today would've been vastly different.

The SR engine is a proven design from the 1990s with a lot of aftermarket support, even long after the cars were discontinued. One advantage the engine had was that it was both popular in NA form (SE-R guys), as well as turbo (Pulsar GTi-R/Bluebird/Silvia/180SX). I hope the FA20 sees the same development over its lifespan.

-alex
mav1178 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2013, 09:12 AM   #34
regal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Drives: Scion FR-S/Toyota Yaris
Location: PA
Posts: 1,438
Thanks: 21
Thanked 316 Times in 232 Posts
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mav1178 View Post
That is basically how I feel... if I can find a pristine S15 that I can import and legalize, I'd get rid of my BRZ in a heartbeat.

But Nissan dropped the ball on this because they read the US market wrong, and never thought about importing and developing an entry level sports car with the right engine. A S14 with a 155HP KA24DE in 1998 was sold for around $25k, and for the same dollar amount today you can get a FRS or BRZ that has way better performance and platform design.

If, however, the S-chassis was continually developed, I think the subcompact tuner market today would've been vastly different.

The SR engine is a proven design from the 1990s with a lot of aftermarket support, even long after the cars were discontinued. One advantage the engine had was that it was both popular in NA form (SE-R guys), as well as turbo (Pulsar GTi-R/Bluebird/Silvia/180SX). I hope the FA20 sees the same development over its lifespan.

-alex
I looked for an unmolested rust-free S14 for nearly a decade before buying the frs. The last one I looked at really pissed me off, a pristine '96 240sx that had a SR20DET swap but no OBDII port, no way to get an emissions sticker and legally drive where I live (if only it had been a '95). As far as the fa20 it really can't be compared to a forged engine like the SR20DET. A 350 hp daily driver SR20det can be easy and trouble-free.
__________________
2013 FRS Argento Silver 6MT

Mods:
Clear fender side lights
Tactrix ZA1JB01C 2014 Calib
regal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 01:01 PM   #35
Diode Dynamics
 
Diode Dynamics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Drives: 2013 Scion FR-S
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 2,770
Thanks: 1,503
Thanked 1,761 Times in 877 Posts
Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 5 Thread(s)
I found mine in KC after two months of searching on CL everyday for STL and KC.

I'm from KC, so when I found this one I had my brother pick it up for me. You guys would be shocked at how clean and straight this car is. I had it on the rack when I finished the 5-lug conversion and it didn't even have surface rust on the frame. I'm still amazed

Nick C.
__________________
John C.
Diode Dynamics
Follow Us: FB // IG // YT // TikTok
Diode Dynamics is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 01:14 PM   #36
TylerLieberman
Senior Member
 
TylerLieberman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Drives: '20 Hakone 86
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,671
Thanks: 655
Thanked 3,334 Times in 1,572 Posts
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by regal View Post
IMHO the SR20DET the best 4 cylinder Japan ever made, and imho the ZN6 is the best chassis japan ever made.

since I don't need a 12 second car I'm satisfied with the FRS over the unobtainable S15, just hope to get rid of the torque dip.
SR20 is an amazing motor. I love them and am a bit biased. The fact that you can make near 400whp on a stock block with some bolt ons and good tuning is impressive. Idk about the ABSOLUTE best EVER though.. but it's gotta be up there high on the list. There are some crazy 4 cylinder motors that have come out of Japan.

As far as chassis' go, I think the FD RX7 and AP1 S2000 are both far better than our cars.
TylerLieberman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 01:18 PM   #37
Trashed675
Senior Member
 
Trashed675's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Drives: 2013 Ultramarine FRS
Location: Grants Pass, OR, USA
Posts: 654
Thanks: 140
Thanked 180 Times in 110 Posts
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by shu5892001 View Post
Just buy a late model 240sx and do a S15 front end and SR20DET swap
Thats what I'd do. Plus then it'd be left hand drive too.
__________________
Trashed675 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 01:21 PM   #38
TylerLieberman
Senior Member
 
TylerLieberman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Drives: '20 Hakone 86
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,671
Thanks: 655
Thanked 3,334 Times in 1,572 Posts
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trashed675 View Post
Thats what I'd do. Plus then it'd be left hand drive too.
S14.5 can be done right but people screw them up so much. S14.5s NEED widebody to look right. Otherwise, it looks weird.

S15's are still better than 14s. The 15 chassis is a big improvement over the 14 as a whole.
TylerLieberman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 01:26 PM   #39
Trashed675
Senior Member
 
Trashed675's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Drives: 2013 Ultramarine FRS
Location: Grants Pass, OR, USA
Posts: 654
Thanks: 140
Thanked 180 Times in 110 Posts
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerLieberman View Post
S14.5 can be done right but people screw them up so much. S14.5s NEED widebody to look right. Otherwise, it looks weird.

S15's are still better than 14s. The 15 chassis is a big improvement over the 14 as a whole.
If you're going to leave it stock then sure. But as a platform it really doesn't matter as you can make it what you want. Plus the cost of modding a 240 into an S14.5 is much cheaper then trying to get a real S15 and getting it legalized.
__________________
Trashed675 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 01:33 PM   #40
Kids Heart
Senior Member
 
Kids Heart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Drives: 2013 BRZ Limited SWP
Location: Lawrenceville GA
Posts: 583
Thanks: 64
Thanked 121 Times in 68 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
S15 cannot be made street legal in the US period. If you can afford an off road use only vehicle or wish to break the law by registering it as an s14, by all means.

An s13.5 or s14.5 will never look as sexy as a real s15.
Kids Heart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 02:11 PM   #41
TylerLieberman
Senior Member
 
TylerLieberman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Drives: '20 Hakone 86
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,671
Thanks: 655
Thanked 3,334 Times in 1,572 Posts
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
If it were me, I would just track down an S15 shell and build it up. Tow/trailer it to track events and have fun with it. If you still have it when the 25 year mark hits and you want it to be street legal, then go through the process.
TylerLieberman is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.