All-New 2022 Subaru BRZ Makes Global Debut

[PandaEighty-Six]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

Would literally buy this in a heartbeat.

Ditto. Quite literally one of the coolest cars to come out over the past five years and it's a real shame Honda couldn't just up the displacement and send something like this to the U.S. But then again, seeing the dismal situation of sports cars around the world, I can't blame them for not wanting to basically throw away hundreds of millions of dollars worth of R&D, manufacturing, etc. for a car that very few people would buy.

[Sport-Tech]

I'd be OK with the new twins sounding like this (starts at 1:45):

[nikitopo]

I haven't followed much this discussion lately, but I find the new gen to be an overall improvement. I have read something about losing passion, but I don't get it. How do you lose passion if you improve almost every aspect of the old car? Next gen keeps the initial character with a high rev engine, improves chassis stiffness, eyesight is not available in the manual and they keep things simple. Of course, it is a bit heavier. It would be perfect if weight could be same like current gen, but given what you get the weight difference is very minimal. So, it doesn't lose its old character. We shouldn't be that much blindfolded just because Toyota didn't work much on this generation. Great job Subaru and finally a factory oil cooler in the engine!

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by Sport-Tech

I'd be OK with the new twins sounding like this (starts at 1:45):

Group C cars were the freaking best.


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[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by Red-86

You prefer the engine/exhaust note of a turbo H4 to a NA H6? Well, that just goes to show how subjective preferences are.
Is that actually what you gathered from all that, because that isn’t remotely close to anything I said?
I don't think that preference is very widespread, however. Certainly not with the turbo H4s in the 718. Sales dropped notably when they switched to H4 only for the 718, so much so they had to quickly bring back H6 options (GT4, Boxster Spyder, GTS) to try and lure the Porsche fanatics back.

In any case, it will be interesting to see what the FA24D sounds like. I do hope they have improved the engine note, and haven't resorted to any artificial 'enhancement' through the speakers. Anyone know?

.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Red-86

You prefer the engine/exhaust note of a turbo H4 to a NA H6? Well, that just goes to show how subjective preferences are.

I don't think that preference is very widespread, however. Certainly not with the turbo H4s in the 718. Sales dropped notably when they switched to H4 only for the 718, so much so they had to quickly bring back H6 options (GT4, Boxster Spyder, GTS) to try and lure the Porsche fanatics back.

In any case, it will be interesting to see what the FA24D sounds like. I do hope they have improved the engine note, and haven't resorted to any artificial 'enhancement' through the speakers. Anyone know?

Engine note preferences are even more subjective than appearance . Always have been. Unfortunately it isn't even something that is debatable since each person may not even be hearing the same thing.
To me the only exhaust note that beats a boxer, ANY boxer, is a big block V8. The higher the displacement the better the exhaust note. Inline 4s with their normally small displacement sound like chainsaws. This gets even worse when you go even smaller and add a turbo. Hondas are especially repellent to me. There is no exhaust in the world that will make them sound good to my ear and I would never consider buying one for that very reason.
Exhaust note is indeed something you can play with by different exhaust systems but can never truly change to far from the base. You will never make an inline 4 sound like a V8. Before anybody jumps in with their usual "well that is obvious" just look at the number of people that try to do exactly that!
Displacement has the greatest affect on the base exhaust sound of any of the factors and for that reason the FA24 should have a deeper tone than the FA20 even if everything else was kept equal. This can be heard in the various videos.

[Tokay444]

Boxers sound like shit unless they have 12 cylinders.

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

Boxers sound like shit unless they have 12 cylinders.

Not sure how you can say that. Flat 6 porches NA sound fantastic

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[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by jflogerzi

Not sure how you can say that. Flat 6 porches NA sound fantastic

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Quite easily.
V8s, V10s, and V12s all sound better.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I haven't followed much this discussion lately, but I find the new gen to be an overall improvement. I have read something about losing passion, but I don't get it. How do you lose passion if you improve almost every aspect of the old car? Next gen keeps the initial character with a high rev engine, improves chassis stiffness, eyesight is not available in the manual and they keep things simple. Of course, it is a bit heavier. It would be perfect if weight could be same like current gen, but given what you get the weight difference is very minimal. So, it doesn't lose its old character. We shouldn't be that much blindfolded just because Toyota didn't work much on this generation. Great job Subaru and finally a factory oil cooler in the engine!

All around the car is slightly bigger, heavier, more powerful and more up to date. None of the changes are are massive. This is a GOOD thing as myself and others were afraid they were going to take it in the mass market direction a that would have resulted in a radically different car. Unfortunately they sort of took it in the opposite direction and narrowed the target demographic. The overall design is cluttered and disjointed with different design aspects that conflict with each other. The whole front looks like it belongs on a different car and was just tacked onto basically a plain Jane rear.

All those vents and the inclusion of the oil cooler still lead, at least me, to believe they had heat issues with the FA24. They add weight, complexity and cost that the marketing spin of "more down force yo" just doesn't support the power and expected speeds of the car. There is more of a story to those vents than they will ever tell us. One of the beautiful things of the first gen was that the body design was smooth and "clean" making for a blank canvas for those that wished to modify. The new styling with the already protruding front fenders, the side "wings" (their words not mine) and whale tale trunk all actual body panels means there is already a painting on that canvas and people will need to paint over it and it's restrictions. No doubt the aftermarket will find ways to do this but I predict some pretty goofy looking finished projects with people trying work around what is there. Of course there are going to be plenty that love it as it is but we are back to that narrower demographic thing since it is much more of a "take it or leave it" design.

Not sure about the "passion" thing though. This version seems to be more of a build by the numbers and what does marketing think project than the first time around. It is much more of a case of making it fit with the rest of the Subaru lineup than the first gen design ever was. Things as basic as the "make the tail lights the same as all our other cars" all add up to a distinctly Subaru look. This isn't necessarily a bad thing but but is a different direction than the first gen "screw what the rest of the line up looks like this is distinct" designs. To me that is more of a car built by the book and even if improved it doesn't take passion to do that.

Now that engine. There will be piles of people saying "still not enough power". If so many screamed the FA20 should make "at least 300" to be any good they are not going to be satisfied with a 15% bump. If the loss to the wheels is about the same as the FA20 we are looking at about 190 to 200HP to the wheels. The larger displacement however will bring the torque on earlier. If all remains equal with gearing and diff this will make a much peppier car off the line and should satisfy (it won't but it should) most street driving needs. It will most certainly be an "improvement" over the current gen but it will not turn the car into a Mustang beating drag racer. The huge (yes it is huge) jump in compression ratio does concern me a bit. They may have pushed the engine so far that getting much more out of it may be interesting. Those with access to high end fuel and E85 can probably get significant gains with a simple tune and all stock parts. Those without are going to have a rough time. With that high a ratio, on anything below 93 octane, the car is going to pull timing and adjust fuel mixture so hard you will be lucky to get anything close to the rated power out of it much less add power. The risk of pre ignition at that ratio is just too great. Of course people will do the standard feel good mods such as light weight pullies, intake manifold spacers, etc but getting more air and fuel through the engine isn't going to resolve the need for the ECU to do what it needs to do to prevent knock and keep all the rods inside the block where they belong. The fact that the turbo version of this engine only runs at a 10.6:1 and and only makes 32 more horses is telling. Of course all this goes away for those with easy access to E85. They can probably do wonderful things with that engine.

All in all I know that I am accused of being "negative", a "hater" and just "justifying buying a First Gen" because I have not bowed to my knees and kissed Subaru's ass for this new Gen but in reality I feel it is a logical and appropriate next step. It is actually all I would have hoped it would be and in a good part what I predicted for the last 4 years. I was very afraid that it would be hybrid or butchered for mass market appeal and it wasn't. At one point there was the very real risk it would not be made at all and that would have been the real tragedy! That said I would not be interested in buying one unless it was the only option on the market. The styling just turns me right off and the improvements in the engine, stiffness, interior, etc all address complaints that I never had with the first gen. The 2017 updates actually created what I felt were the tweaks that made me happy. Oh, other than that damned stupid, amp bypassing, tin can sounding, useless hone hearing, piece of total trash, they can shove it up their $%#, horrible head unit they picked up at a clearance sale or something and threw in the 2020s.

[jflogerzi]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

All around the car is slightly bigger, heavier, more powerful and more up to date. None of the are are massive. This is a GOOD thing as myself and others were afraid they were going to take it in the mass market direction a that would have resulted in a radically different car. Unfortunately they sort of took it in the opposite direction and narrowed the target demographic. The overall design is cluttered and disjointed with different design aspects that conflict with each other. The whole front looks like it belongs on a different car and was just tacked onto basically a plain Jane rear.



All those vents and the inclusion of the oil cooler still lead, at least me, to believe they had heat issues with the FA24. They add weight, complexity and cost that the marketing spin of "more down force yo" just doesn't support the power and expected speeds of the car. There is more of a story to those vents than the will ever tell us. One of the beautiful things of the first gen was that the body design was smooth and "clean" making for a blank canvas for those that wished to modify. The new styling with the already protruding front fenders, the side "wings" (their words not mine) and whale tale trunk all actual body panels means there is already a painting on that canvas and people will need to paint over it and it's restrictions. No doubt the aftermarket will find ways to do this but I predict some pretty goofy looking finished projects with people trying work around what is there. Of course there are going to be plenty that love it as it is but we are back to that narrower demographic thing since it is much more of a "take it or leave it" design.



Not sure about the "passion" thing though. This version seems to be more of a build by the numbers and what does marketing think project than the first time around. It is much more of a case of making it fit with the rest of the Subaru lineup than the first gen design ever was. Things as basic as the "make the tail lights the same as all our other cars" all add up to a distinctly Subaru look. This isn't necessarily a bad thing but but is a different direction than the first gen "screw what the rest of the line up looks like this is distinct" designs. To me that is more of a car built by the book and even if improved it doesn't take passion to do that.



Now that engine. There will be piles of people saying "still not enough power". If so many screamed the FA20 should make "at least 300" to be any good they are not going to be satisfied with a 15% bump. If the loss to the wheels is about the same as the FA20 we are looking at about 190 to 200HP to the wheels. The larger displacement however will bring the torque on earlier. If all remains equal with gearing and diff this will make a much peppier car off the line and should satisfy (it won't but it should) most street driving needs. It will most certainly be an "improvement" over the current gen but it will not turn the car into a Mustang beating drag racer. The huge (yes it is huge) jump in compression ratio does concern me a bit. They may have pushed the engine so far that getting much more out of it may be interesting. Those with access to high end fuel and E85 can probably get significant gains with a simple tune and all stock parts. Those without are going to have a rough time. With that high a ratio, on anything below 93 octane, the car is going to pull timing and adjust fuel mixture so hard you will be lucky to get anything close to the rated power out of it much less add power. The risk of pre ignition at that ratio is just too great. Of course people will do the standard feel good mods such as light weight pullies, intake manifold spacers, etc but getting more air and fuel through the engine isn't going to resolve the need for the ECU to do what it needs to do to prevent knock and keep all the rods inside the block where they belong. The fact that the turbo version of this engine only runs at a 10.6:1 and and only makes 32 more horses is telling. Of course all this goes away for those with easy access to E85. They can probably do wonderful things with that engine.



All in all I know that I am accused of being "negative", a "hater" and just "justifying buying a First Gen" because I have not bowed to my knees and kissed Subaru's ass for this new Gen but in reality I feel it is a logical and appropriate next step. It is actually all I would have hoped it would be and in a good part what I predicted for the last 4 years. I was very afraid that it would be hybrid or butchered for mass market appeal and it wasn't. At one point there was the very real risk it would not be made at all and that would have been the real tragedy! That said I would not be interested in buying one unless it was the only option on the market. The styling just turns me right off and the improvements in the engine, stiffness, interior, etc all address complaints that I never had with the first gen. The 2017 updates actually created what I felt were the tweaks that made me happy. Oh, other than that damned stupid, amp bypassing, tin can sounding, useless hone hearing, piece of total trash, they can shove it up their $%#, horrible head unit they picked up at a clearance sale or something and threw in the 2020s.

Mic drop and end of thread discussion. All solid points and I feel most are spot on.

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[Tokay444]

tl;dr.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

tl;dr.

Car good
Not huge changes
Engine need prove self
Ugly (subjective)
Don't want

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

Quite easily.
V8s, V10s, and V12s all sound better.

Does your wife look bad because there are models that look better?

Does every car that is not a Ferrari, Porsche or Lamborghini inherently look bad too?

I like the sound of my car. I know the Subie or Porsche fanboys would argue the contrary.

You are entitled to your subjective opinion of course.