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Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


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Old 06-22-2015, 08:41 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by bur****jp View Post
Pure Aluminum VS an alloy mixture forged is different

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Originally Posted by Turdinator View Post
Can you share some info on these rods? Will your car be a daily driver or more of weekend warrior?
This will be a daily in the summer months

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Any idea on hp output?
250+

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What intake and exhaust manifolds will you run? Intake is the problem for raising peak power rpm point.
@Nameless header is my choice but not against trying others and dyno prove if something can put out more.
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Old 06-22-2015, 08:47 AM   #198
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It all depends on what aluminum it is.. who knows what aluminum was represented in that graph on wikipedia.. but for the right price, I bet you can get some rods made out of 7075-T6 or an even stronger alloy.

EDIT - Aluminum rods are still a maintenance item http://rrconnectingrods.com/aluminum...K0saAh9z8P8HAQ

EDIT 2 - More info http://www.dragzine.com/tech-stories...yths-with-grp/

Moral of the stories are if you want long life, don't go aluminum.
Largest problem is Case clearance, The ROD Journal is already smaller to clear the case and the Aluminum rods are bulky to add strength. Then again we are not making 1000+HP

Billet is different than forged though

http://www.bmeltd.com/rods.htm
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"In a hot street application, using the aluminum rod is a no brainer," BME President, Bill Miller, said in an interview with an automotive magazine. "I don't know how the myth that aluminum rods can't be used on the street got started, but I'll guess that, back in the 60s and early-70s, they weren't making them using the process we're using today. With the material we've got and they way we manufacture the connecting rods, they'll live a couple hundred thousand miles on the street because a street application is, for the most part, low load. Our basic Aluminum Rod is made for an 1000-hp, 10,000 rpm race engine. The design criteria for the connecting rod is way overkill for what it's going see on the street. We been running aluminum rods on the street for more than two decades."
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Old 06-22-2015, 08:48 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by celek View Post
Pure Aluminum VS an alloy mixture forged is different


This will be a daily in the summer months


250+


@Nameless header is my choice but not against trying others and dyno prove if something can put out more.
No interest in the Ace 4-2-1?
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Old 06-22-2015, 08:49 AM   #200
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No interest in the Ace 4-2-1?
After I finish the kids college fund short block and heads I will look into bolt on options.
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Old 06-22-2015, 08:53 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by celek View Post
Largest problem is Case clearance, The ROD Journal is already smaller to clear the case and the Aluminum rods are bulky to add strength. Then again we are not making 1000+HP

Billet is different than forged though

http://www.bmeltd.com/rods.htm
SOLD!
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Old 06-22-2015, 09:12 AM   #202
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The failure mode on aluminum is still going to be more severe than a ferrous metal, but either way you've lost an engine. So it really comes down to whether it's more likely. I'd guess it is, but if someone suggests they won't be the first part to fail, I wouldn't doubt them either - just because it may fail sooner doesn't mean it will fail first, and in an engine built toward the limits, that's really what you get to balance.
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Old 06-22-2015, 09:42 AM   #203
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You do a few things differently when setting-up a street engine for BME Rods. Minimum bearing clearance at room temperature should be .002-.0025-in. Wrist pin clearance should be .0006-.0008-in. Rod side clearance should be .020-in. The engine's oiling system needs to be appropriate for a racing application with larger rod bearing clearances once the oil reaches operating temperature. The oiling system must be configured to provide 10 psi, hot oil pressure for every 1000 rpm in the engine's rpm range. The minimum acceptable oil is a premium, 10W30 synthetic and Bill Miller Engineering recommends either Red Line 10W30 Engine Oil or Gibbs Driven HR 10W30 Oil. Engines with BME Aluminum Rods must not be run at high load or high rpm until oil temperature reaches at least 130 deg. F. Lastly, while Red Line and Driven oils lubricate reliably at oil temperatures up to 300 deg. F, the recommended oil temperature for an engine using BME Rods is 200 deg. F.
Your only issue is going to be getting the oil pressure up top. Though I am saving the link for later. These rods look to be promising.
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Old 06-22-2015, 10:28 AM   #204
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Your only issue is going to be getting the oil pressure up top. Though I am saving the link for later. These rods look to be promising.
Wrist pin clearance is not a problem as the rod can be machined for it. the BE bore could be compensated possibly with WPC treatment that changes the surface by about .001 on the Rod journal of the crank.

Yes the oil pressure is going to me a challenge but also looking at the reimax oil pump replacement. The oil weight is concerning with it not being 0w 20 but then again its not a stock engine.
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Old 06-22-2015, 10:48 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by celek View Post

250+


@Nameless header is my choice but not against trying others and dyno prove if something can put out more.


250 plus will be easy I am thinking around 265-275


I really like the PPE header it has a strong top end and the price is good too compared to others out there, I would say it's the best bang for the buck in the header area.
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Old 06-22-2015, 10:52 AM   #206
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Contacting them and asking about 5w30 might be good. Seems a lot of the track cars are running it and it is recommended in the manual for cars seeing hard driving. I bumped up with the turbo install and seems to have helped my pressures quite a bit. 10w30 with an oil cooler(which will lower oil pressure) and the reimax pump might satisfy the oil pressure issues up top.
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Old 06-22-2015, 11:28 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by celek View Post
Pure Aluminum VS an alloy mixture forged is different
I'm aware.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_alloy
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An important structural limitation of aluminium alloys is their lower fatigue strength compared to steel. In controlled laboratory conditions, steels display a fatigue limit, which is the stress amplitude below which no failures occur – the metal does not continue to weaken with extended stress cycles. Aluminium alloys do not have this lower fatigue limit and will continue to weaken with continued stress cycles. Aluminium alloys are therefore sparsely used in parts that require high fatigue strength in the high cycle regime (more than 107 stress cycles).
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Old 06-22-2015, 11:37 AM   #208
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The oil weight is concerning with it not being 0w 20 but then again its not a stock engine.
Look at the 86 cup manual. They're not running 0W20 in otherwise stock engines.
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Old 06-22-2015, 12:15 PM   #209
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I would consult with element tuning for oiling, they seem to have a good handle on oil supply at 9000rpm with their track car. As far as I can tell that is.
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Old 06-22-2015, 12:17 PM   #210
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I would consult with element tuning for oiling, they seem to have a good handle on oil supply at 9000rpm with their track car. As far as I can tell that is.
@Element Tuning is looking into the Reimax option results as well as others testing if you read through the most recent posts on the thread.

I actually called them last week with a few cylinder head questions.
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