(GR86) Second Generation FR-S/BRZ insider info...

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

you are stuck either buying used or have to settle for whatever is left over.

Oh noooooo I’ll have to buy USED! The horror!!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Oh noooooo I’ll have to buy USED! The horror!!

I know it isn't a big deal to many but there are plenty that want new and if they can't get one they are indeed stuck buying used. Somebody has to for there to be used ones so those that chant the "People are morons for wanting new everybody should only buy used" are talking out of their ass.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I know it isn't a big deal to many but there are plenty that want new and if they can't get one they are indeed stuck buying used. Somebody has to for there to be used ones so those that chant the "People are morons for wanting new everybody should only buy used" are talking out of their ass.

Oh I agree, I’m thankful people buy new so I can buy used. But I’m not planning on it, I just can’t see the point of spending 30k on a car when I can get the same one for 20 with <20000 miles on it and a few farts in the seat.

[gravitylover]

Originally Posted by Th3rdSun

Oh,ok. I get it. You guys are talking about driving enthusiast cars and not reliable,A to B cars. In that case,it still was a blanketed statement to say that Toyota as a whole has sucked for years. Maybe I missed the context of the statement of something.



And yes,I've driven a version of all of those cars and they are solid. You know,sometimes you just need a car to get you to work and back and will last well over 200k miles. My aunt finally got rid of her Camry a couple of years ago and it was over 300k miles,still running well,and nothing out of the ordinary done to it in regards to repairs. If that's what people consider a sucky car,well I'll take two of them.

Not really enthusiast just not appliances. I ordered a Crosstrek when they came out because it appeared to have a lot of attributes I'd appreciate. It turned out to be so vanilla, so boring to drive, slow as shit and after sitting on the seat for an hour I was achy. It was a great car for someone that needs to go from here to there in a variety of conditions and weather, doesn't need to commute in a very aggressive part of the country, and doesn't drive for more than 30-45 minutes at a time. For me it sucked for them it's perfect. It's all about perspective I guess.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Not to mention if you wait for the next gen, it turns out to be a total turd and the first gen sells out of new ones that you wanted you are stuck either buying used or have to settle for whatever is left over.

And I put my money where my mouth is and bought a new one so in a year or so people can either laugh at or congratulate me on my foresight.

But enthusiasts are such a small part of the market and if they go mainstream everyone else is going to want the new one because it has Subaru eyesight, and lane keeping assist, and 13" of ground clearance to get over those pesky parking curbs, and awd so you can tell your suburban friends it has awd, and 142 airbags, and 12 cupholders...

On a side note, I wonder if people would want so many air bags if they were called "explosively inflated membranes"...

[nextcar]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Not to mention if you wait for the next gen, it turns out to be a total turd and the first gen sells out of new ones that you wanted you are stuck either buying used or have to settle for whatever is left over.

And I put my money where my mouth is and bought a new one so in a year or so people can either laugh at or congratulate me on my foresight.

That is the dilemma I fear... My 2013 only has 45K miles on it and is in fantastic shape - but nothing lasts forever. If I like the new model I will buy one not because I need it, but because I want it. If I don't like the new model, I will want to buy the last of the current generation (a 2021?) just to avoid things breaking from age... and at least around here the dealers keep very limited stock of the manuals since they don't sell a lot. Chances of finding the color and options I want new will be slim...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by gravitylover

It's all about perspective I guess.

As "enthusiasts" for the same car we can't even come close to a consensus as to what it should be. How can we expect the general public to have the same perspective as us? Probably 80% of the people at work and my close friends drive pickup trucks. They all think I am a total nut case for driving something else. On the other hand I KNOw they are.

Originally Posted by Spuds

But enthusiasts are such a small part of the market and if they go mainstream everyone else is going to want the new one because it has Subaru eyesight, and lane keeping assist, and 13" of ground clearance to get over those pesky parking curbs, and awd so you can tell your suburban friends it has awd, and 142 airbags, and 12 cupholders...

On a side note, I wonder if people would want so many air bags if they were called "explosively inflated membranes"...

Exactly!
Oh and yes they would since the industry would spin the name explosively inflated membranes to the best thing ever and the majority of the pubic would demand it.

[Opie]

Wife has already given the green light on a Gen2 while keeping the Gen1, just have to pay off the truck first. And if Gen2 is not a good driver car, I'll just get a NC Miata...lol

[bcj]

Still like Alfas, though I'm not holding my breath.

[nextcar]

Originally Posted by bcj

Still like Alfas, though I'm not holding my breath.

I might just jump ship if they would only import this... but no such luck.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by nextcar

I might just jump ship if they would only import this... but no such luck.

If only they’d put a manual in it. Similarly to the 4C it will probably gain a couple hundred lbs to pass US regulations too.

[C4RBON]

My complaints with my BRZ are mostly related to NVH. Consider that I live in Iowa, and like to do things in Chicago and Colorado; I spend a lot of time on the highway. I would appreciate a reduction in wind and road noise in the next generation.


When my Baja engine died last fall, I decided to buy a new car. I considered buying a 2nd BRZ to use as a daily while my 2015 slowly becomes a dedicated track/autox car. Ultimately I went with a GTI because I wanted to try something different, and it is more comfortable for spending hours on the highway.


I know it may sound blasphemous, but for the 2nd generation, I would sacrifice some lightness for a more comfortable highway car. I'm not saying make it 3200lbs with comfy-couch seats and air-ride suspension; but I'd give up 100lbs to make it more comfortable. My reasoning is this:


- When the BRZ/GT86 came out, the ND Miata did not exist. It exists now, and is even lighter than the BRZ and has better suspension geometry. Stock vs stock, the BRZ handles better, but as soon as coil-overs are thrown in the mix, the Miata is amazing. I say this as someone who has autocrossed both. In a world where the ND is available at a similar price, the BRZ's lightness is less of a selling-point.


- The "fix" for a heavier car is more power and wider, stickier tires. If 100lbs is added to make it more comfortable, that can be made up for with 40hp and moving to wider tires. I would happily take 240hp and 225-width Pilot Sport 4S tires from the factory.


- Making the 2nd generation car more livable will attract new buyers, which is important for a sports car. I know so many new grads at my company who go out and buy a damn crossover. Single guys making $70k buying their first new car, and they decide an Equinox is just the car for them. We've gotta get some of these guys (and gals) in a fun car. Normal people hate how loud the BRZ is, especially if they cross-shop with anything other than a Miata.


My hope for the 2nd generation is that the engineer-enthusiasts at Toyota and Subaru can stand up to the marketing people. 17" wheels are right for this car, but I could tolerate 18"s; I sure as hell don't want 19"s. A single-exit exhaust would be awesome, but I'm sure marketing wants four. I have no use for driver aids and nannies, but that's what people want these days; just let me permanently disable them.


I'm skeptical of the reported timeline for this 2nd gen. Being released in 2021 as a 2022 model is starting to look fanciful. Other than the development announcement, we haven't seen anything concrete. No mules spotted, no concept cars, no teasers, etc. If this is on sale in the autumn of 2021, I would have expected to see more by now. Pre-production builds would be starting in about a year.

[Kiske]

Originally Posted by C4RBON

I'm skeptical of the reported timeline for this 2nd gen. Being released in 2021 as a 2022 model is starting to look fanciful. Other than the development announcement, we haven't seen anything concrete. No mules spotted, no concept cars, no teasers, etc. If this is on sale in the autumn of 2021, I would have expected to see more by now. Pre-production builds would be starting in about a year.

There have been some mules spotted about 5 months back. Most speculate that they were for another refresh or a special/final edition. It's unknown if they were testing anything for the next gen such as a new engine which isn't an uncommon practice with auto manufacturers.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by C4RBON

If this is on sale in the autumn of 2021, I would have expected to see more by now. Pre-production builds would be starting in about a year.

Mules are definitely running around by now. They’re likely disguised as current gen cars, or maybe Imprezas if I had to guess. I’m still holding on to the thought that the whole TGNA rumor is bullshit. If it has a boxer motor and it’s built by Subaru, it makes way more sense for the car to be on a tweaked 1st gen chassis, or the SGP. I don’t buy the often brought up narrative that SGP was built for AWD, so it can’t do RWD. The same holds true for the old Impreza platform and the current twins still sit on it.

R35 Skylines were disguised as G35 coupes, the Supra/Z4 was disguised as a BMW 240i, 370Z was running around in 350Z clothes before the preproduction cars, it’s very common.