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Old 10-14-2018, 02:48 PM   #1
falcon_wizard
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Worth going forged internals for reliability ?

Good day,

After going over all the threads I found, I’d appreciate some feedback regarding my personal situation... I have a 2013 BRZ with 90k km on it, which I turbo’ed last year (340 crank hp on 94 octane, (270whp) and 260 tq). I’d like to be able to keep it another 6-8 years and thus looking for long term reliability. It’s my yearly daily driver including snowy winters, and I plan to do 1-3 days of HPDE per year, in a beginner group. I installed a dual oil cooler-radiator to keep oil temps at bay. I’m not an agressive driver, but will do like good accelarations from time to time. The clutch just got replaced, as the stock one was starting to slip.

I do not really have higher power goals, I would not mind having a bit more low end torque for passing on the highway when in 6th speed at 120km/hr, but otherwise, the tq I have I find is more than sufficient, and makes for a super predictable and balanced car during the HPDEs. Currently, max tq is achieved at 4k rpm and stays until redline. The professional tune done on dyno keeps tq lower up to that to protect the rods.

My goal is really to maintain long term reliability for many years to come, and protect the drivetrain and tranny to avoid such replacement costs. I have now invested a substancial amount in this car which I absolutely love, now I’m trying to see what is the logical and financially sound approach for the long term, as buying a new car this fun to drive would cost a lot more...

I have been recommended to invest in a built engine with forged internals to avoid bad surprises and long term reliability. Any recommendations for or againts such investment from your experience? Would this be a sound*»investment*» in attemping to keep the car for 6-8 more years ? Will it truly bring more reliability, or will the fact of having to take apart and rebuild the block actually cause other things to fail ? I understand forged internals would allow me to add substantial more power, but I would not want to put myself in a situation where I’d need to upgrade tires, tranny, axles, fuel pump, etc, etc to keep the car reliable.

Based on all I’ve read, my current setup is already just below the typically mentionned 300whp «safe*reliabilty point*» for stock internals. I am aware there is nothing garanteed and lots of factors involved, but The input from those with lots of experience would be much appreciated to help me enjoying my BRZ for years to come safely and reliably.

Thanks in advance,

Last edited by falcon_wizard; 10-14-2018 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 10-14-2018, 03:54 PM   #2
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I wanna say forged internals are for someone wanting more than the safe level of boost.

"Reliability" works but I've heard it'd be like 10k for a built engine and 10k doesn't sound like reliability.

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Old 10-14-2018, 03:59 PM   #3
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Save the money on the side and get a new OEM block when/if the current one grenades. Cheaper and less of a headache.
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Old 10-14-2018, 04:03 PM   #4
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Save the money on the side and get a new OEM block when/if the current one grenades. Cheaper and less of a headache.
Not to hijack. How much better is the new block? Are there "safe" boost levels out there for it (higher than 7-9)?

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Old 10-14-2018, 06:58 PM   #5
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Not to hijack. How much better is the new block? Are there "safe" boost levels out there for it (higher than 7-9)?

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Theres plenty of second hand engines going around from people doing swap which are pretty cheap so it where me id by one of those and part out the bits I dont need on it

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Old 10-14-2018, 07:26 PM   #6
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2017+ blocks are supposed to be a bit stronger but not sure how much in practical terms. For road racing I would run a conservative tune anyway; for an occasional street pull can run a bit more hp/tq.
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Old 10-14-2018, 08:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falcon_wizard View Post
Good day,

After going over all the threads I found, I’d appreciate some feedback regarding my personal situation... I have a 2013 BRZ with 90k km on it, which I turbo’ed last year (340 crank hp on 94 octane, (270whp) and 260 tq). I’d like to be able to keep it another 6-8 years and thus looking for long term reliability. It’s my yearly daily driver including snowy winters, and I plan to do 1-3 days of HPDE per year, in a beginner group. I installed a dual oil cooler-radiator to keep oil temps at bay. I’m not an agressive driver, but will do like good accelarations from time to time. The clutch just got replaced, as the stock one was starting to slip.

I do not really have higher power goals, I would not mind having a bit more low end torque for passing on the highway when in 6th speed at 120km/hr, but otherwise, the tq I have I find is more than sufficient, and makes for a super predictable and balanced car during the HPDEs. Currently, max tq is achieved at 4k rpm and stays until redline. The professional tune done on dyno keeps tq lower up to that to protect the rods.

My goal is really to maintain long term reliability for many years to come, and protect the drivetrain and tranny to avoid such replacement costs. I have now invested a substancial amount in this car which I absolutely love, now I’m trying to see what is the logical and financially sound approach for the long term, as buying a new car this fun to drive would cost a lot more...

I have been recommended to invest in a built engine with forged internals to avoid bad surprises and long term reliability. Any recommendations for or againts such investment from your experience? Would this be a sound*»investment*» in attemping to keep the car for 6-8 more years ? Will it truly bring more reliability, or will the fact of having to take apart and rebuild the block actually cause other things to fail ? I understand forged internals would allow me to add substantial more power, but I would not want to put myself in a situation where I’d need to upgrade tires, tranny, axles, fuel pump, etc, etc to keep the car reliable.

Based on all I’ve read, my current setup is already just below the typically mentionned 300whp «safe*reliabilty point*» for stock internals. I am aware there is nothing garanteed and lots of factors involved, but The input from those with lots of experience would be much appreciated to help me enjoying my BRZ for years to come safely and reliably.

Thanks in advance,

This is what I am thinking to get
Short block low compression
https://crawfordperformance.com/coll...12172301402185

and installation kit
https://crawfordperformance.com/coll...z-fr-s-gt86-86

plus high-boost pulley, injectors, fuel pump, cooling upgrades, tune, labor.

Looking like a little less than $10K over the JRSC I already have.

I wouldn't do any of this without the built short block.
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Old 10-14-2018, 08:11 PM   #8
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Old 10-14-2018, 09:02 PM   #9
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Built engines aren't inherently more reliable. I think reliability comes from responsible driving habits and preventative measures taken ( as you have with the oil cooler). I'd make sure you're doing anything you can to reduce knock correction ( better have catch cans!) and be extremely cognizant of your oil level. If it's survived this long, surely you're doing something right; I will agree with the sentiment that you should buy another block to be ready if something happens to this one, it's the cheapest path, it's a proven path, and it's a familiar path.

If you want more power, go with a built block, but understand that they have their own needs and aren't any safer from a reliability standpoint; building a brick wall that's thicker to withstand impact is great, but if the foundation is poor it'll come down regardless. Running a built engine low on oil, or thinking it'll withstand knock detonation much better would be silly ideals. Look at all the built WRXs and STIs that end up with multiple rebuilds. They aren't treating the principle cause of their failure and are just throwing big money at parts because nobody helps them understand the real reason for failure.
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Old 10-14-2018, 09:07 PM   #10
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IMO, you are probably more likely to have an issue with spun bearings than anything else. I'd take steps to ensure that oiling is as little an issue as possible.

Edit: @DarkPira7e is right. A catch can would be a worthy investment.

Take the time to read through this thread if you haven't already.
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Old 10-14-2018, 10:48 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strife26 View Post
I wanna say forged internals are for someone wanting more than the safe level of boost.

"Reliability" works but I've heard it'd be like 10k for a built engine and 10k doesn't sound like reliability.

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so how much power are you getting with 10k of built and say an edelbrock?
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Old 10-15-2018, 05:33 AM   #12
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Detune it a bit, or build in a lot of failsafes. Do every supporting mod as appropriate.

I have 38 track days on my turboed stock engine, with maps going up to 450 crank hp on Ethanol.
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Old 10-15-2018, 06:35 AM   #13
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Detune it a bit, or build in a lot of failsafes. Do every supporting mod as appropriate.

I have 38 track days on my turboed stock engine, with maps going up to 450 crank hp on Ethanol.
Generally speaking, which kind of failsafes are you using on your maps?
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Old 10-15-2018, 11:38 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by CSG Mike View Post
Detune it a bit, or build in a lot of failsafes. Do every supporting mod as appropriate.

I have 38 track days on my turboed stock engine, with maps going up to 450 crank hp on Ethanol.
So far, in terms of failsafe, I’ve put a remote starter to warm the car up before I drive it, and stay in low boost map until the oil is at least 190F. I also have a 91octane map I could use, while fueling with 94. I’ll definitely look into a catch can or oil separator - it’s not something that was really on my radar to date. Besides that I run Gulf 5w40 and make oil changes every 5000km or sooner, and started getting my oil tested.

Is there anything else I missed I should be looking into ?

Cheers
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