P0018 - what a disappointment this car has become

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Where does it say the fluid needs to be changed at 22? I see an inspect at 22 not a change. In fact there is no "Change" required at any point for the MT all the services just show inspect and change if required.

People think it's a necessity to change the oil because there's so many threads about it, when in actuality no one reads the Owner's Manual or Warranty Booklet in detail.

This thread basically reinforces everything I already know about warranty and ownership: many people simply do not understand what is and is not included when it comes to powertrain.

Engine sensors and electronics outside of the ECU are NOT covered under powertrain.

-alex

[Yardjass]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Where does it say the fluid needs to be changed at 22? I see an inspect at 22 not a change. In fact there is no "Change" required at any point for the MT all the services just show inspect and change if required.


http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...2&d=1449790739

Originally Posted by mav1178

People think it's a necessity to change the oil because there's so many threads about it, when in actuality no one reads the Owner's Manual or Warranty Booklet in detail.

This thread basically reinforces everything I already know about warranty and ownership: many people simply do not understand what is and is not included when it comes to powertrain.

Engine sensors and electronics outside of the ECU are NOT covered under powertrain.

-alex

I'll find the little pamphlet, double check what it said, and report back. It was vendor literature but separate from the actual manual itself. Either way, the way it was grinding, especially on cold start, and isn't now, it definitely needed to be changed. I guess I could have been a **** and grinded it every day instead of double clutching like I did until I changed it, then showed up in 11 months and made them replace it but its easier to just change it myself at not too high of a cost.


Manufacturers are getting a little too lax with this, IMO. VW claimed that my TDI 6MT never needed a fluid change. I changed it around 80k miles when it started getting rough and it went right back to butter. Again, I'd be less hesitant to just leave it and let it destroy itself if they were standing behind it with a warranty but by the time the transmission becomes a problem, warranties are usually gone and that problem is yours, and yours alone.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Yardjass

Manufacturers are getting a little too lax with this, IMO. VW claimed that my TDI 6MT never needed a fluid change. I changed it around 80k miles when it started getting rough and it went right back to butter. Again, I'd be less hesitant to just leave it and let it destroy itself if they were standing behind it with a warranty but by the time the transmission becomes a problem, warranties are usually gone and that problem is yours, and yours alone.

Hence the word "inspection"....

I just swapped the front/rear diff and transfer case fluids on my friend's 2014 Tundra with 105k miles. All the Tundra guys on forums swear he needed to change his fluids after 10-20k since the fluids tend to be gunk fairly soon.

We swapped it out and the new fluid going in looked worse than the old fluid coming out...

I do not discount the value of user experiences with these things, but I do not just jump out and assume that this is the case with all the issues out there. I am willing to bet good money that if I were to survey enough owners of this platform, that the vast majority have no issues as long as regular interval service was performed.

Will you have a premature grind in your transmission? It's possible. Is the fix a complete fluid swap? Sure.. but I really don't think the word "lax" is the proper description when it comes to these things. Frankly, they should not be lax because 1) it generates service revenue for dealerships, and 2) more lax = more possibility of warranty claims down the road.

The new owner of my BRZ got his transmission replaced at 45k miles. I changed my fluids at 5k and changed it again at 30k, both times completely unnecessary. YMMV.

-alex

[Icecreamtruk]

Originally Posted by mav1178

We swapped it out and the new fluid going in looked worse than the old fluid coming out...

-alex

This right here is bullshit. What oil did you put in? Mcdonalds frying used oil or something?

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk

This right here is bullshit. What oil did you put in? Mcdonalds frying used oil or something?

Thanks for your remark. It was Redline 75W-90NS GL-5 gear oil.

There were some shavings on the drain plug but the oil was absurdly clean for 105k miles. However, I should note that about 100k of those miles were freeway miles in Southern California, he drives it about 300 miles a day or so for work. Never tows unless there's things in the truck bed, and has been off paved roads maybe twice.

The point I was making is that a lot of forum posts tend to be alarmist in nature, and other people are then struck with some type of paranoia about what is going on with their vehicles. As long as regular maintenance is done, there isn't any major issues to worry about and the factory requested intervals for work isn't "lax" by any means.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk

This right here is bullshit. What oil did you put in? Mcdonalds frying used oil or something?

You're a funny guy, Icecreamtruk ..... that's the reason I'm going to you last ......


humfrz

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by mav1178

..............
The point I was making is that a lot of forum posts tend to be alarmist in nature, and other people are then struck with some type of paranoia about what is going on with their vehicles. As long as regular maintenance is done, there isn't any major issues to worry about and the factory requested intervals for work isn't "lax" by any means.

I'll have to agree with mav1178 (this time .....) ...... I think many of us do waaaay too much changing of fluids in our cars (extreme driving conditions excluded).


humfrz

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by humfrz

I'll have to agree with mav1178 (this time .....) ...... I think many of us do waaaay too much changing of fluids in our cars (extreme driving conditions excluded).


humfrz

Of course. We have a tedency to know better than the manufacturer and make our own rules.

[Boofneenee]

Originally Posted by mav1178

People think it's a necessity to change the oil because there's so many threads about it, when in actuality no one reads the Owner's Manual or Warranty Booklet in detail.

This thread basically reinforces everything I already know about warranty and ownership: many people simply do not understand what is and is not included when it comes to powertrain.

Engine sensors and electronics outside of the ECU are NOT covered under powertrain.

-alex

can you explain to me why the SCION tsb for the cam sensors specifically states in a red box that the sensors are covered under the limited power train warranty? Who wrote this tsb? If scion did write it then why did they take the time to specifically include, in a bright red box, that this IS covered under the limited power train warranty. Did you look at the tsb I am referring too? What am I missing here?

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45844

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Boofneenee

can you explain to me why the SCION tsb for the cam sensors specifically states in a red box that the sensors are covered under the limited power train warranty? Who wrote this tsb? If scion did write it then why did they take the time to specifically include, in a bright red box, that this IS covered under the limited power train warranty. Did you look at the tsb I am referring too? What am I missing here?

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45844

What you are missing is this:

A TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN (TSB) is a fix provided by the manufacturer to address a KNOWN MANUFACTURING ISSUE affecting certain VIN in production. Usually a fix is put in place in subsequent production vehicles after a certain VIN, but for the first few cars the manufacturer may deem the repair as part of the basic powertrain or other warranty coverage.

In a normal situation, TSB repair and the parts associated are given 12 months parts/labor or the basic 3-year warranty, whichever is greater from the date. In the case of this cam sensor, an early fix on the Subaru side was to use different shims as the physical placement of the sensor was off by enough to throw off the sensor, thus a mechanical fix up to and including sensor/ECU replacement.

You simply cannot use a TSB to take it backwards and justify that things are covered under a powertrain warranty. In the case of this TSB, it simply means that TOYOTA SAYS IF YOUR CAR IS REPAIRED UNDER THIS TSB, THE SENSOR AND ASSOCIATED REPAIR WORK DONE IS COVERED UNDER 5 YEARS OR 60,000 MILES POWERTRAIN WARRANTY.

This TSB does not do anything to alter the material facts of what is offered the in Powertrain Warranty. It does not change the wording.

But again, I think you keep mixing up a TSB (which is issued to fix a known production issue and/or specific end user issues that match the conditions laid out in the TSB) vs a warranty (which is blanket coverage for parts failure that is specifically laid out, but the warranty approval process is determined by dealer/manufacturer)

Hope this helps. If not, I suggest you go talk to some dealer techs about TSB, because the number one thing they hate is when car people come in, slap a TSB in their face, and tell them to fix an issue that may or may not be addressed by the TSB...

-alex

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by Boofneenee

can you explain to me why the SCION tsb for the cam sensors specifically states in a red box that the sensors are covered under the limited power train warranty?

Originally Posted by mav1178

What you are missing is this:

In the case of this TSB, it simply means that TOYOTA SAYS IF YOUR CAR IS REPAIRED UNDER THIS TSB, THE SENSOR AND ASSOCIATED REPAIR WORK DONE IS COVERED UNDER 5 YEARS OR 60,000 MILES POWERTRAIN WARRANTY.

I was going to say, the fact that it's expressly written in the TSB inside a red box shows to me they want to alert the technicians of something not common (giving warranty on these parts that commonly do not have warranty).

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

I was going to say, the fact that it's expressly written in the TSB inside a red box shows to me they want to alert the technicians of something not common (giving warranty on these parts that commonly do not have warranty).

Basically, if the parts repaired fail again for whatever reason, you are covered under the powertrain warranty.

Nowhere does it say engine sensors or engine electronics in general are covered.

TSBs are for technicians and not end users to decifer...

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Basically, if the parts repaired fail again for whatever reason, you are covered under the powertrain warranty.

Nowhere does it say engine sensors or engine electronics in general are covered.

TSBs are for technicians and not end users to decifer...

Exactly, that's the way I look at it