Toyota Dynamic Force Engine

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Torque dips. They aren’t just a boxer thing. Hondas had huge torque dips before VTEC KICKS IN!!!

Found these on a BEAMS MR2 thread here (high strung 2.0L I4):

http://www.mr2.com/forums/threads/77...registry/page6

And our torque curve between the dip and redline looks a lot better.

[nikitopo]

The only main issue I can see with the particular engine manufacturer is the lack of considerable power updates within the normal time cycle. Check how a basic Cayman evolved during its lifetime:

2005-2009, 2687 cm³, 245 PS
2009-2013, 2893 cm³, 265 PS
2013-2016, 2706 cm³, 275 PS
2016-2020, 1988 cm³, 300 PS

New engine technologies could definitely help to stay competitive with future emission regulations, but it won't be enough without a power update in the range of an additional 20-30 PS.

They are already a bit late on this ...

[why?]

Originally Posted by Tanstin

I too have to admit that the ND2 is objectively a better car stock. It's lighter, the handling feel is excellent and the engine pulls properly as it should from the factory.
That being said, I'll still take the 86 anyday. The two main reasons being the better chassis and it's better daily-driveability.
The reason you always see miata dudes screwing around with sway bars, rails and chassis braces is largely in part due to the design of their car. Unlike the twins, it has an open roof and the taller I4 engine which translates to more body flex and roll around corners. I acknowledge that the FA20 is motor isn't very good. I'm grateful that we have headers that can remove the dip, but its powerband from the factory is immensely underwhelming and requires you to beat the hell out of it to get up to speed. Yet that same low COG flat-4 is why it handles so damn well, and why putting in an I4 wouldn't be a good solution.
If they can get the engine right this time around. The 86 platform will far and away be superior to the miata

The engine is good enough. Beating the hell out of the engine is the entire point of the car. You had to beat the crap out of the original AE86 to have fun too. For them to get the engine right the car would cost $35k or more.

Originally Posted by nikitopo

The only main issue I can see with the particular engine manufacturer is the lack of considerable power updates within the normal time cycle. Check how a basic Cayman evolved during its lifetime:

2005-2009, 2687 cm³, 245 PS
2009-2013, 2893 cm³, 265 PS
2013-2016, 2706 cm³, 275 PS
2016-2020, 1988 cm³, 300 PS

New engine technologies could definitely help to stay competitive with future emission regulations, but it won't be enough without a power update in the range of an additional 20-30 PS.

They are already a bit late on this ...

Subaru and Toyota didn't even use all available tech from when the car started. They are not going to update it like Porsche does their cars, that would increase the price too much.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by why?

Subaru and Toyota didn't even use all available tech from when the car started. They are not going to update it like Porsche does their cars, that would increase the price too much.

So, do you expect next generation to have a +5hp improvement like the revised +'17 model? It won't sell ...

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

How are people still whining about the torque dip after 8 years? If you’re in the torque dip while driving fast you’re doing it wrong! Stop whining and learn how to downshift to the proper gear.

FA20 can still get FI with 12.5:1 compression using 93 octane but I am wondering if the 14:1 compression will be a problem for forced induction modifications. Mazda 2.5 Skyactive-G turbo comes with lower 10.5 compression (NA is 13:1 compression), for example.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

So, do you expect next generation to have a +5hp improvement like the revised +'17 model? It won't sell ...

The ND1 has 12hp LESS than the NC2 and it sold like hot cakes.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

The ND1 has 12hp LESS than the NC2 and it sold like hot cakes.

MX-5 is a roadster and the ND1 was lighter too. If the next generation 86/BRZ could have similar weight savings, then I agree that a small power increase would suffice and it would definitely drive better.

[why?]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

So, do you expect next generation to have a +5hp improvement like the revised +'17 model? It won't sell ...

The car is selling about as well as it can. This isn't the early 80's and 2 door cars always have problems selling.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by why?

The car is selling about as well as it can. This isn't the early 80's and 2 door cars always have problems selling.

This. I haven’t seen a BRZ stay on the lot for longer than a week in my area in a long time.

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by why?

The car is selling about as well as it can. This isn't the early 80's and 2 door cars always have problems selling.

Also considering there hasn’t been many major updates since it debuted in 2012. One large refresh in 2017 and that’s pretty much it, along with very minor changes here and there.

I’d say it’s performed pretty well over the past 8yrs in terms of sales with that in mind.

But most people don’t want sports cars these days. They want as autonomous and isolated of a driving experience they can get.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

The ND1 has 12hp LESS than the NC2 and it sold like hot cakes.

It also lost like what 300 lbs? That also contributes to it too.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

Also considering there hasn’t been many major updates since it debuted in 2012. One large refresh in 2017 and that’s pretty much it, along with very minor changes here and there.

I’d say it’s performed pretty well over the past 8yrs in terms of sales with that in mind.

But most people don’t want sports cars these days. They want as autonomous and isolated of a driving experience they can get.

Yes it was a success. I am just skeptical if the same recipe could work for the next 8 years ...

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by weederr33

It also lost like what 300 lbs? That also contributes to it too.

Christ, this is the third time this week somebody’s tried to tell me the ND lost 300 pounds over the NC. It was 118 pounds.



Yes it’s significant, but the power to weight is actually better on the NC. The ND is helped by smarter gearing and better torque.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Christ, this is the third time this week somebody’s tried to tell me the ND lost 300 pounds over the NC. It was 118 pounds.



Yes it’s significant, but the power to weight is actually better on the NC. The ND is helped by smarter gearing and better torque.

Then I will keep telling you that!!!! Weight loss, no matter what is always better. Stop with your fact checking.