20B Rotary

[themadscientist]

Not a new 86, but there ya go.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osJSoen8hxQ"]AE86 20B - YouTube[/ame]

I would consider jamming one of my extra 13Bs in the BRZ if the FA20 blew. I happen to like rotaries, though and can handle their idiosyncrasies.

As far as NA tuning, peripheral port is pretty much the mountaintop. This is a 20B PP all motor against an L3.? which is a real bruiser of an engine.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2Fqbade_bU"]SUPER AMERICAN FESTIVAL 2013 SA22C 20B 3ROTOR Peripheral Port 3 - YouTube[/ame]

[TEDDER1]

Defined has a 20b 3 rotor making 475 rwhp N/A

Some 4 rotors are making 580+rwhp N/A

There is a 6 rotor now that makes 800+ rwhp N/A

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by TEDDER1

Defined has a 20b 3 rotor making 475 rwhp N/A

Some 4 rotors are making 580+rwhp N/A

There is a 6 rotor now that makes 800+ rwhp N/A

*insert evil laugh here*

The bad thing is that as soon as you add a lb of boost, it blows the apexi seals so the best rotary is NA.

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by M23

I don't know jack sht about rotaries. But, what are the whp levels for each of these setups: 1-rotor NA, 2-rotor NA, 3-rotor NA??

Or, do those (1, 2 or 3 rotor) not exist in NA form, and have to be FI to pull of any decent numbers?

I dont think I have ever seen a 1 rotor. A 2 rotor can be built to probably 350-400whp, a 3 rotor would push up against 500, and 4 rotors can break 600whp, all NA. This is done by serious materials and some awesome awesome rev limits (9,500+). The down side is that they literally get gallons to the mile. With both gas and oil. And the weak point is apexi seals, if anyone comes up with a material to withstand the pressure of boost, youll have the best engine in the world. Ive always wanted to see Inconel apexi seals...

On an epic side note; some guy built a 12 rotor in his garage out of 3 4 rotor engines lol.

[TEDDER1]

I had my TT setup for 6 yrs and 196000 miles and it never blew up. The clowns who bought it from me did in a week.

here is a video of my GT4094 setup in the second one. I didnt do anything fast, was just driving around at a max of 5k rpm.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1djuUo2Kgo"]testing camera mount - YouTube[/ame]

[TEDDER1]

new setup

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBI3nCNK6Rs"]Light throttle - YouTube[/ame]

[malave7567]

My 13B single turbo set-up was reliable, just have to take care of them. I also wasn't pushing for huge power either, just low to mid 300's rwhp. That is still a huge increase over stock for a 2nd gen 7. There should be some commandments written under the hood for new rotary owners.

1) if you start the car, you MUST ALWAYS let it warm completely up before shutting it down (primarily, this prevents chance of flooding engine, also allows oil to lubricate apex seals)
2) "Open it up" good at least once each day that you use it. The RX-8s were having problems because people babied them too much, especially the automatics, and without enough gas given to it, not enough oil was being injected either and the apex seals went bad. Mazda recalled this to change the tune and inject extra oil under light loads. Honestly, a good opening up of the engine every once and a while is good for any engine (responsibly, and once warmed up of course).
3) Always check your oil when filling up the gas tank. Surprising how few people do this nowadays. A rotary is designed to consume oil to keep the seals lubricated, you have to stay on top of this.
4) Never, EVER, let it overheat. If for some reason the temps are rising, PARK IT. A overheated piston engine might be ok after cooling off and fixing the problem. A overheated rotary is usually dead and and in need of rebuild.

Those are the four biggest ones I know of. I know there's some people who run pre-mix with great success, but I never did. Rotaries aren't for everyone. I absolutely love the sound and how they drive, and someday I will pickup an old 1st or 2nd gen RX7 again. They definitely are gas-guzzlers though.

[themadscientist]

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

*insert evil laugh here*

The bad thing is that as soon as you add a lb of boost, it blows the apexi seals so the best rotary is NA.

That is complete bullshit.

The best rotary, like any engine, is one that is properly built and tuned. Detonation is what pops apex seals, not boost. You have apex seals in a piston engine too; they are called rings and they don't like ill-timed pressure spikes either.

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

I dont think I have ever seen a 1 rotor. .

Now you have. Ain't it cute?

http://www.atkinsrotary.com/index.php?pag=14

[themadscientist]

Originally Posted by malave7567

My 13B single turbo set-up was reliable, just have to take care of them. I also wasn't pushing for huge power either, just low to mid 300's rwhp. That is still a huge increase over stock for a 2nd gen 7. There should be some commandments written under the hood for new rotary owners.

1) if you start the car, you MUST ALWAYS let it warm completely up before shutting it down (primarily, this prevents chance of flooding engine, also allows oil to lubricate apex seals)
2) "Open it up" good at least once each day that you use it. The RX-8s were having problems because people babied them too much, especially the automatics, and without enough gas given to it, not enough oil was being injected either and the apex seals went bad. Mazda recalled this to change the tune and inject extra oil under light loads. Honestly, a good opening up of the engine every once and a while is good for any engine (responsibly, and once warmed up of course).
3) Always check your oil when filling up the gas tank. Surprising how few people do this nowadays. A rotary is designed to consume oil to keep the seals lubricated, you have to stay on top of this.
4) Never, EVER, let it overheat. If for some reason the temps are rising, PARK IT. A overheated piston engine might be ok after cooling off and fixing the problem. A overheated rotary is usually dead and and in need of rebuild.

Those are the four biggest ones I know of. I know there's some people who run pre-mix with great success, but I never did. Rotaries aren't for everyone. I absolutely love the sound and how they drive, and someday I will pickup an old 1st or 2nd gen RX7 again. They definitely are gas-guzzlers though.

Wait, you had an FC. You left out the special stage commandments like

1. The engineer who came up with cold solder joints was an asshole and your fuel pump won't get consistent voltage, dash lights will flick in and out, you wipers might not work or may refuse to stop and roll down the windows if you dare; they may not come back up!

I was premixing i n mine with good success, but I was also running the OMP as well. Just a little Motul in the tank, 200:1 mix for that extra bit of lubrication. Straight premixing concerns me on a street driven rotary. Too much time off the throttle and when all your lube is in the fuel, ouch.

[malave7567]

Originally Posted by themadscientist

Wait, you had an FC. You left out the special stage commandments like

1. The engineer who came up with cold solder joints was an asshole and your fuel pump won't get consistent voltage, dash lights will flick in and out, you wipers might not work or may refuse to stop and roll down the windows if you dare; they may not come back up!

so true. That's one of the reasons I think I would prefer a SA/FB instead. I love the FC body though.

edit: and the water temp gauge that has three positions only: cold, normal, f#$^ed

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by themadscientist

That is complete bullshit.

The best rotary, like any engine, is one that is properly built and tuned. Detonation is what pops apex seals, not boost. You have apex seals in a piston engine too; they are called rings and they don't like ill-timed pressure spikes either.



Now you have. Ain't it cute?

http://www.atkinsrotary.com/index.php?pag=14

so you mean to tell me that the legend of the rotary is a lie because no one knows how to tune a non piston engine, so they just throw as much timing at it as they possibly can and when it blows up they blame the apexi seals?

[themadscientist]

No, I'm saying any machine improperly set up or maintained will fail. People spout lies about piston engines too. My beloved CA18DET gets a rep for not liking boost because they throw rods. When you quiz the guy, though, you come to discover he bought into the other lie that this motor with the ill-coceived rod angles and less than stellar strength rod bolts was being wound up to 9K on the regular, but it's the boost that killed it, right.


The Rotary is more prone to pseudoscience because most people don't understand it. The myth about rapacious fuel consumption? Yeah, TOTALLY TRUE!

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by themadscientist

No, I'm saying any machine improperly set up or maintained will fail. People spout lies about piston engines too. My beloved CA18DET gets a rep for not liking boost because they throw rods. When you quiz the guy, though, you come to discover he bought into the other lie that this motor with the ill-coceived rod angles and less than stellar strength rod bolts was being wound up to 9K on the regular, but it's the boost that killed it, right.


The Rotary is more prone to pseudoscience because most people don't understand it. The myth about rapacious fuel consumption? Yeah, TOTALLY TRUE!

I understand the main components and how it rotates and works, but I haven't opened one up and actually taken a good long look at one. I can understand why it burns gas pretty fast. Is there a conceiveable way to make a diesel rotary? I know the Furai was an Ethanol fuel based motor.

[themadscientist]

It's pretty interesting inside. It starts to make more sense once you look inside. My buddy had an SA in high school and when he showed me the engine it was a real head scratcher. It had four plug wires so we wondered if it was a four cylinder.

I don't know if diesel would work. I've never seen such a beast. I would think a diesel ignition scheme would exacerbate the temperature differences in the housings and be problematic.

I have a buddy who is steeped in rotary lore who tells me that Wankel intended it to run on propane.