Vacci-Nation [CLOSED DUE TO DISRESPECTFUL, INSULTING, POLITICAL POSTS

[spike021]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Only 16% of the available doses have been administered, which is different than saying 16% of staff and residents have been given a dose. Another way of saying it is that 84% of staff and residents have refused the vaccine who have been offered the vaccine in cases where it was made available to them. Still another way of saying it is that for every 100 doses that have been given to these facilities, 84 of them are still sitting in the freezers. Your grandfather wouldn't be counted because he isn't a person who has refused a vaccine or offered a vaccine yet.

The article does say the numbers are lower than what is actually the case because there is a delay in reporting who refused a dose.

Ahhh, gotcha. Misread that, then. Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying!

[Sapphireho]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I'm pretty sure that is not the case

Pretty sure I'm right.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

Pretty sure I'm right.

Lol well, what if I told you Idaho has more cases and deaths per capita than California, even though its population density is far, far less? Do you know what observational bias is?

[Captain Snooze]

I found this to be of interest.

Coronavirus: few vaccines prevent infection – here’s why that’s not a problem

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Another way of saying it is that 84% of staff and residents have refused the vaccine who have been offered the vaccine in cases where it was made available to them.

I wonder why so many medical workers are refusing the vaccine? Hmmmmmmmmmm

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

I wonder why so many medical workers are refusing the vaccine? Hmmmmmmmmmm

Misinformation and unfounded fear.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Misinformation and unfounded fear.

Sounds like how people react to coronavirus

You would think if anyone had the 411 on vaccines it would be healthcare workers.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

Sounds like how people react to coronavirus

You would think if anyone had the 411 on vaccines it would be healthcare workers.

Not really. 70% of nurses have an associates degree (ASN). Care partners, techs, home health aids, EMTs, etc only need basic certifications/licenses like a 3-6 month class. Technologists like rad techs, CT or US techs just have an associates. At best, they took a microbiology course to prepare them for diseases, which addresses the very basics of vaccines.

Doctors have less than six months (3-4 units) worth of nutritional training. Ask them about nutrition, and you might get nothing to something that sounds like it came from a guru. Sometimes you will get something that is well informed because they had a secondary education or are self-taught.

Similarly, healthcare workers understand diseases, disease processes and the basics of immune pathology at some level. Few were held to high academic standards and few had high level course work in pharmacology, virology, genetics, law, etc, and even fewer enjoy spending their free time researching these things and reading academic papers or researching the federal regulations.

My lead nurse often says we work with educated idiots. This is true. They can still be a victim of propaganda, group think mentality, bias, etc. They are still capable of being a victim of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

From conversation, the biggest issues that came up were the following:

—Distrust in Trump/this administration: Not in a conspiracy theory way like the government is going to put trackers in the vaccine or some chemical to intentionally kill us, but more about incompetence.

—Speed to market: The process went too fast to be well vetted.

—New Technology: They expressed concern about the novel techniques used.

—Fear of the unknown: What if this causes cancer?

—Indifference and poor risk assessment: I have to wear masks for the long, foreseeable future anyways, as a healthcare worker. Thus, I’m already protected, so I’ll just get the vaccine later once more people have it or when they finally make a second generation of the vaccine.

I was typically able to break each one of these down to convince others their position wasn’t justified.

[JD001]

Just heard that our (UK) Government is planning to have every person over 18year old, who wishes to be vaccinated, to be administered one of the 3 vaccines by this coming Autumn.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by JD001

Just heard that our (UK) Government is planning to have every person over 18year old, who wishes to be vaccinated, to be administered one of the 3 vaccines by this coming Autumn.

That seems like forever, but if they rolled it out strategically then it won't be necessary to wait so long to return to some level of normalcy--hopefully.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

From conversation, the biggest issues that came up were the following:

—Distrust in Trump/this administration: Not in a conspiracy theory way like the government is going to put trackers in the vaccine or some chemical to intentionally kill us, but more about incompetence.

—Speed to market: The process went too fast to be well vetted.

—New Technology: They expressed concern about the novel techniques used.

—Fear of the unknown: What if this causes cancer?

—Indifference and poor risk assessment: I have to wear masks for the long, foreseeable future anyways, as a healthcare worker. Thus, I’m already protected, so I’ll just get the vaccine later once more people have it or when they finally make a second generation of the vaccine.

I was typically able to break each one of these down to convince others their position wasn’t justified.

It's interesting that an overwhelming majority of healthcare workers seem to fear the potential negative impacts from the vaccine when they have been on the front lines of this pandemic for almost a year. You would think they would be more afraid of getting Covid19. Maybe they realize the virus isn't as scary as politicians and the MSM would like us to believe it is?

[spike021]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

It's interesting that an overwhelming majority of healthcare workers seem to fear the potential negative impacts from the vaccine when they have been on the front lines of this pandemic for almost a year. You would think they would be more afraid of getting Covid19. Maybe they realize the virus isn't as scary as politicians and the MSM would like us to believe it is?

I've known front line medical staff (nurses) who've contracted COVID-19 and after having had it and worked in departments with victims of it, they feel very strongly about how needed the vaccine is.

Also, just because something is scary doesn't mean it's bad. Otherwise as humans we'd never be able to progress at anything.

As a kid I was always scared of riding horses and had seen people get injured from falling off them, but when I finally rode one for the first time I got over that fear.

Can we get past this whole "corrupt media and politicians" shit (also we're veering dangerously close to pissing off Hachi...)?

You can feel free to go visit any hospitals in the most heavily affected places if you want to see first-hand with your own eyes what it's doing to people.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

It's interesting that an overwhelming majority of healthcare workers seem to fear the potential negative impacts from the vaccine when they have been on the front lines of this pandemic for almost a year. You would think they would be more afraid of getting Covid19. Maybe they realize the virus isn't as scary as politicians and the MSM would like us to believe it is?

It is an interesting example of cognitive dissonance. Someone will likely write a dissertation on the very phenomenon.

Most of them are very much uninformed. Many of them still believe the propaganda that COVID deaths are over-reported, but when I show them the graph on All Cause Mortality their tune changes, especially when that graph suggest we are under-reporting deaths. Most of them believe 375k deaths are still relatively small numbers because that is only 0.11% of the population and that percentage doesn't create a sense of concern for their risks, but then when I point out that 0.11% is more than 1 in a 1000, or when I point out that the death toll in some areas is closer to 1 in 250, or remind them that those numbers get worse each day, or remind them that the long term effects could be as significant as 1 in 50 or something worse, then their tune can change. Even that number doesn't seem as bad when you say it is just 2%, but 1 in 50 is enough to mean dozens of people you may know at work or in your family could be affected. What is worse is that the 10 year statistics could be like 1 in 5, but time has a way of also diminishing the sense of risk. Denial is powerful too.

What is worse, their experiences may not help them perceive the risks. For example, in the ER, we see all different varieties of COVID patients, but we don't see patients that die before getting to the hospital, and we don't see patients who die days, weeks or months later in the ICU. If we do see someone die or someone who is extremely critical then it is someone who is in that Goldilocks zone on the cusp of death. For nursing homes, these healthcare workers see people die all the time, and they don't see them die, as those people are sent to hospitals. They care for geriatric patients and other people in long term care, so their assessment of the situation is skewed too. They don't see how this could affect them because they are young. Anecdotes about the congressman who died of COVID at 40 or a teacher dying at 33 is easily dismissed, especially if you are a 25 year old care partner. Besides education, age is a big contributor, which is why more doctors are getting the vaccine then care partners.

Then it goes back to the false propaganda, misinformation and fear about the vaccine. The risk of anaphylaxis to the vaccine is around 1 in a million, yet I have consistently heard that people are afraid of that, which is a striking level of cognitive dissonance. Anaphylaxis is a treatable event that is rarely deadly when appropriate care is quickly taken. So far over, 24 million people have been vaccinated worldwide. We have potentially one reported death, which is almost certainly not from the vaccine, yet I guarantee you that people will weigh the risks of getting the vaccine as worse than COVID.

There is fear of the unknown like getting cancer. There is no evidence the vaccines could cause cancer. There may be no mechanism for the vaccines to cause cancer. The risk of long term complications from exposure to COVID could far outweigh someone's likelihood of getting cancer from the vaccine, but people are equally as poor at assessing their risk.

Many healthcare workers might falsely believe they already have had COVID at some point, either asymptomatically or mildly symptomatically. This is what most of my coworkers believe. We all joke around how we all have MRSA, so it is a running joke that we all have had it. If a person believes it is impossible to prevent the inevitable then they already believe they were exposed, and this is amplified if someone cares for COVID patients. The few people who I know who have had COVID via a positive antibody test or PCR test are ironically all getting or have gotten the vaccine.

I could go on. The point is that healthcare workers may not be the most informed or educated individuals to be following their poor example.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/06/healt...ath/index.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/c...-distribution/

https://www.thinkglobalhealth.org/ar...-about-vaccine

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

It's interesting that an overwhelming majority of healthcare workers seem to fear the potential negative impacts from the vaccine when they have been on the front lines of this pandemic for almost a year. You would think they would be more afraid of getting Covid19. Maybe they realize the virus isn't as scary as politicians and the MSM would like us to believe it is?

All the healthcare/at-risk/biotech (all on the high priority list) people I know are either eager to receive the vaccine or have already received their first shot. Every single one, which is only double digits but still kind of an overwhelming majority in my sample.