Knock fix with Australian Fuel 98/100 RON

[steve99]

Originally Posted by keen as

Thanks. I will give the 98 tune a go.
On the OFT, I can see IAM to monitor.
What is the other parameter to monitor? Is it KC?
Thanks again for sharing

On the OFT for knock you want to monitor

RPM
Engine Load
KC Learned
Knock Correction
IAM

Original post has more info.

see logs here

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=26

They shows plenty of knock correction and KC Learned dropping

[PMok]

hello my Australian bros,
I am wondering if the 98 RON tune you've worked out might also be helpful for those of us in California that are running the Stage 1 OFT tune on 91 AKI. I've definitely seen my IAM drop below 1.00 a few times and it would seem it's the same issue, just poor quality fuel with insufficient octane for the S1 OFT tune.

If I'm understanding this right @steve99 what you've developed here is a tune that dials back the timing a little from the S1 OFT tune, to avoid the knock you guys are experiencing. If that's right then there should be little risk to try these adjustments over here right? At most maybe lose a little power if the timing reduction is a little too much, but typically somewhere between where the stock timing is and where the S1 OFT would be?

[Nardi330]

Originally Posted by PMok

hello my Australian bros,
I am wondering if the 98 RON tune you've worked out might also be helpful for those of us in California that are running the Stage 1 OFT tune on 91 AKI. I've definitely seen my IAM drop below 1.00 a few times and it would seem it's the same issue, just poor quality fuel with insufficient octane for the S1 OFT tune.

If I'm understanding this right @steve99 what you've developed here is a tune that dials back the timing a little from the S1 OFT tune, to avoid the knock you guys are experiencing. If that's right then there should be little risk to try these adjustments over here right? At most maybe lose a little power if the timing reduction is a little too much, but typically somewhere between where the stock timing is and where the S1 OFT would be?

my understanding is Steve has reduced timing around 1600-3200rpm (engine load 0.6 - 1.10) and over 4600rpm (high engine load over 1).

i don't think there is any harm to try for you guys but you might not be able to load Steve's rom directly as he has a G type rom for Australia spec cars.

[keen as]

Originally Posted by steve99

On the OFT for knock you want to monitor

RPM
Engine Load
KC Learned
Knock Correction
IAM

Original post has more info.

see logs here

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=26

They shows plenty of knock correction and KC Learned dropping

Thanks. Do I understand correctly? Data log and view later on the computer is the best way to monitor for knock. Is there any realtime data you look at on the OFT while driving?

[steve99]

Originally Posted by keen as

Thanks. Do I understand correctly? Data log and view is the best way to monitor for knock. Is there any realtime data you look at on the OFT?

You could look at on oft graphical view, but most knock events are so dam short less than a second thay they are very hard to see.

you need to log it and analyse as you need to know the RPM and Engine load where the knock occurrs and the serveity of the knock to know how much timing to pull.

Remember you IAM will drop some time after the knock events so you need to log the actual events and also the kc learned for high rpm knock in general.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by PMok

hello my Australian bros,
I am wondering if the 98 RON tune you've worked out might also be helpful for those of us in California that are running the Stage 1 OFT tune on 91 AKI. I've definitely seen my IAM drop below 1.00 a few times and it would seem it's the same issue, just poor quality fuel with insufficient octane for the S1 OFT tune.

If I'm understanding this right @steve99 what you've developed here is a tune that dials back the timing a little from the S1 OFT tune, to avoid the knock you guys are experiencing. If that's right then there should be little risk to try these adjustments over here right? At most maybe lose a little power if the timing reduction is a little too much, but typically somewhere between where the stock timing is and where the S1 OFT would be?

You could copy the "Base Timing B" table to your tune I'm pretty sure they are the same but just do a comparision to see that its not majorly different.

Or just look where I pulled timing by comparing my ROM to the standard OFT G ROM stage 1 and adjust yours accordingly.

As your fuel formulation is different you may have to pull timing in different areas or pull a bit more on 91 AKI fuel than I have done, but it would be are starting point if you log knock in similar areas of RPM and Engine load

Its really best to log your knock events and pull timing where it knocks. Found if you see a -1.5 knock event pull about half that from table and it generally enough to fix it. Sometimes you need to pull a bit from the adjacent load/rpm cell as well as it was probably crossing through adjacent cell when knock occurs. The ECU appears to average the values across cells.

Remember your going to loose the power anyway if the ECU is dialing back timing. If the ECU drops your IAM you have lost the timing over the entire RPM/load range until it comes back to 1 which may take quite a while if ever.

The ECU is quite aggressive in dialing back timing when it sees knock, so if you adjust your map to reduce or eliminate the knock you will generally only have to pull about half the timing the ecu was going to pull anyway.

[PMok]

Originally Posted by steve99

You could copy the "Base Timing B" table to your tune I'm pretty sure they are the same but just do a comparision to see that its not majorly different.

Or just look where I pulled timing by comparing my ROM to the standard OFT G ROM stage 1 and adjust yours accordingly.

As your fuel formulation is different you may have to pull timing in different areas or pull a bit more on 91 AKI fuel than I have done, but it would be are starting point if you log knock in similar areas of RPM and Engine load

Its really best to log your knock events and pull timing where it knocks. Found if you see a -1.5 knock event pull about half that from table and it generally enough to fix it. Sometimes you need to pull a bit from the adjacent load/rpm cell as well as it was probably crossing through adjacent cell when knock occurs. The ECU appears to average the values across cells.

Remember your going to loose the power anyway if the ECU is dialing back timing. If the ECU drops your IAM you have lost the timing over the entire RPM/load range until it comes back to 1 which may take quite a while if ever.

The ECU is quite aggressive in dialing back timing when it sees knock, so if you adjust your map to reduce or eliminate the knock you will generally only have to pull about half the timing the ecu was going to pull anyway.

yeah, you're absolutely right, the best thing to do would be to do some logging and only pull timing where I am specifically seeing knock. I was just trying to be lazy and hoping that your adjustments would do the trick. When I do get around to it I may have to post up and get some help with looking at the logs to determine/confirm where the knock is happening.

[Nardi330]

just flashed steve99's tune last night. have been taking it easy and IAM seems to be solid at 1 even i spent most time between 2000-4000rpm.

will drive it more this week then do logs on the weekend. looks promising so far. thanks @steve99.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Nardi330

just flashed steve99's tune last night. have been taking it easy and IAM seems to be solid at 1 even i spent most time between 2000-4000rpm.

will drive it more this week then do logs on the weekend. looks promising so far. thanks @steve99.

If I remember correctly you have high flow cat and perrin cat back, Your car was running slightly leaner than mine (still within safe limits) on the 1.5 stage 1 tune so you might need to pull a bit more timing than I did , will be interesting to see.

[Nardi330]

Originally Posted by steve99

If I remember correctly you have high flow cat and perrin cat back, Your car was running slightly leaner than mine (still within safe limits) on the 1.5 stage 1 tune so you might need to pull a bit more timing than I did , will be interesting to see.

yes i have perrin front pipe with high flow cat and cat back. will do a log and post it up.

thanks again.

[Fizz]

Originally Posted by steve99

If I remember correctly you have high flow cat and perrin cat back, Your car was running slightly leaner than mine (still within safe limits) on the 1.5 stage 1 tune so you might need to pull a bit more timing than I did , will be interesting to see.

I've got a hfc on an aftermarket front pipe, and drop-in filter, but stock everything else (apart from OFT of course)....would this make my car run slightly leaner than yours hence more prone to knock? I haven't had time to log my IAM yet since the feature was enabled for us here, but I'm interested in what you've done and may try running your adjusted tune soon.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Fizz

I've got a hfc on an aftermarket front pipe, and drop-in filter, but stock everything else (apart from OFT of course)....would this make my car run slightly leaner than yours hence more prone to knock? I haven't had time to log my IAM yet since the feature was enabled for us here, but I'm interested in what you've done and may try running your adjusted tune soon.

From what I have seen 86/brz's here knock on stock tunes more than on the OFT tunes. The exhaust mods you have are similar to nardi330's and I did notice from his logs he ran slightly leaner than my stock car on the stage 1 tune (it might just be his car ). It not going to make much difference, but just might need a bit more timing pulled , its just one of those things you will have to log and see.

Some guys with high flow cat have been running the stage 2 tunes, but ask shiv about that.

[Fizz]

I just did a 30 minute log (on the drive to work) which included mostly metro/urban driving. I managed to put in a few low rpm high load, but since it was morning traffic I wasn't able to do any high rpm runs. For the most part the IAM stayed at 1, but then drops to 0.7 toward the end.

I've attached my chart below, not sure how useful it is to you guys, but hope it's good enough to get some feedback

http://datazap.me/u/fizz/data-loggin...log=0&data=1-9

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Fizz

I just did a 30 minute log (on the drive to work) which included mostly metro/urban driving. I managed to put in a few low rpm high load, but since it was morning traffic I wasn't able to do any high rpm runs. For the most part the IAM stayed at 1, but then drops to 0.7 toward the end.

I've attached my chart below, not sure how useful it is to you guys, but hope it's good enough to get some feedback

http://datazap.me/u/fizz/data-loggin...log=0&data=1-9

looks like you need to pull a bit more as below in "Base Timing B" Table

RPM Load
1600 0.8,0.9,1.0
2000 1.0,1.1,1.2
2200 1.0,1,1,1,2
2400 1.0,1.1,1.2
2600 1.0,1.1,1.2
2800 1.0,1.1,1.2
3200 1.0,1.1,1.2

Take out another -0.35 degrees at those load RPM points and see how it goes. If their was nothing taken out at those points already make it -0.7 degrees I don't think I pulled any at 1600.

You look like you more aggressive on the accelerator pedal than me at low rpm seeing 50-70% sometimes below 3000, the knock occurs at throttle tip in.

your long term fuel trims seem high -3 to -7 do you have intake/exhaust mods ?