LS3 BRZ

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by mrg666

Because OP mentioned about reliability and daily drive without a budget constraint. I am apparently not sharing your LS excitement and recommending against doing that swap. LS is a good engine but I haven't seen an LS swap that is as reliable as a Corvette yet, other than a couple donuts, rumbles, and rubber burns. I enjoy this swap forum as much as you and respect the builders for their skills and efforts. But the OP is not doing this himself to enjoy the challenge. Only thing left is paying big bucks to a powerful but finicky car. Please show that "incredibly" reliable LS swapped twin.

This is my honest opinion and my only intention is to help OP.

I don't understand how can you say there are no "incredibly" reliable LS swapped twins. The LS engine and transmission are bulletproof basically. It will deliver what a built FA20 delivers built with a nice turbo, but NA and without the finicky annoyances found in the FA20 (read P001X CEL codes for example).

What exactly is not bulletproof about an LS swapped twin? Your argument about tracking, there are LS swapped 86s being tracked hard, in competition. Element tuning has one and there's a shop in Georgia that has another. This are just two examples of many. But in any case, 99% of people who own these cars are not hardcore competition seeking track dedicated individuals, so the argument that "there are no LS swapped 86s tracked like the video of the synergy car" really does not amount to much, as most of these cars will not see track and most that do, will only be to have fun on an HPDE event, not a full blown competition where the car is driven 10/10 to its limits (aside from the fact that there ARE LS swapped 86s driven hard at the track).

[ILLSMOQ]

Originally Posted by mrg666

I know and agree that LS is a great engine (for the price). But I guess I missed. Do you know any LS swap being tracked like this?

I wish I could do that Synergy swap.

That synergy set up is pretty awesome. If I would have known about it prior to starting my build, I might have gone that way, it’s a pretty complete package...but I ended up with a BRZ becuase I wanted to do an LS swap in the first place lol.

[Mr.ac]

Yeah....... for someone claiming to have a '18 ZL1 and a supercharged S2K
Why the fuk would you even bother with an engine swap on a 86.

To me this seems like a troll kid. Either a diehard fanboy or just a kid with big dreams.

[GrabTheWheel]

Originally Posted by Mr.ac

Yeah....... for someone claiming to have a '18 ZL1 and a supercharged S2K
Why the fuk would you even bother with an engine swap on a 86.

To me this seems like a troll kid. Either a diehard fanboy or just a kid with big dreams.

I'm all 3! A troll, an 86 fanboy and a kid with big dreams. Truth is I have more fun in an 86 with 400 to 500 to the crank and an OS giken LSD than the other two cars when it actually works! Problem is it doesn't seem to work for very long...

Here's some fun at Buttonwillow in the ZL1
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9WLdwLBaTc[/ame]

[Mr.ac]

Originally Posted by GrabTheWheel

I'm all 3! A troll, an 86 fanboy and a kid with big dreams. Truth is I have more fun in an 86 with 400 to 500 to the crank and an OS giken LSD than the other two cars when it actually works! Problem is it doesn't seem to work for very long...

Here's some fun at Buttonwillow in the ZL1

Yeah... that's a fun track. And I clearly see it's driver fault not the car.
Also who are you think your fooling with a beginner run group vid of a track day?
LoL
You need more seat time not power. I clearly see your the type of guy that blames the car not the driver. Work on driver skill. That's all I can say.

[GrabTheWheel]

Originally Posted by Mr.ac

Yeah... that's a fun track. And I clearly see it's driver fault not the car.
Also who are you think your fooling with a beginner run group vid of a track day?
LoL
You need more seat time not power. I clearly see your the type of guy that blames the car not the driver. Work on driver skill. That's all I can say.

Thanks..... for the tip. Please post a video of you running at Buttonwillow so you can teach me! Or better yet come to AutoX with the Porsche or Corvette club at Santa Maria airport so you can school me there! I'll be the first to admit I have lots to learn.

[GrabTheWheel]

Also, fyi this was the ADVANCED run group with speed district, no point by's required. Everyone aside from the guy in the AMG was at least a half way decent driver as we were all running consistent sub 2 min laps on street tires. Please post your fast laps! I was a few seconds off what the ZL1 is capable of but was pretty happy for my 4th track day in the car.

[Mr.ac]

Originally Posted by GrabTheWheel

Thanks..... for the tip. Please post a video of you running at Buttonwillow so you can teach me! Or better yet come to AutoX with the Porsche or Corvette club at Santa Maria airport so you can school me there! I'll be the first to admit I have lots to learn.

Ah, your local? That's cool. Funny story with the Porsche club, well just this club it's always booked or they are picky when it comes to fill the spaces. Either way I been wanting to go all year since they been allowed to do autoX at the airport. But life gets in the way, blah blah blah. You know.

As for teaching, I can try. I have been ask to coach back in the day with the NorCal UFO club at their driving clinic, and with Speed Ventures way back when but I don't consider myself anyway near good enough to teach more than the basics.

As for vids and lap times sorry don't have any worth posting. Unless you want to see me hit a good line then hit traffic and slow down. But you know how that is when your trying to do a fast lap and that dude in front is trying something new and just slows you down.


And oh, sorry didn't realize it was an 'advance' run group. I mean most of the high end run groups I ever experienced where just doing parade laps. But I get it. Last thing I want is rock chips from going off track on my $80k+ car.

I don't mean to come out like a jerk, but when you have a bas ass car like a ZL1 then go complaint about the 86 and not being fast enough with out a V8 swap, it kind of puts a hella of lot of doubts. You know? One might even tell you to dump all your money in the better car, that is your ZL1 and forget about a silly swap.

But that's just my crazy thinking.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by Mr.ac

One might even tell you to dump all your money in the better car, that is your ZL1 and forget about a silly swap.

But that's just my crazy thinking.

I don't disagree with this.

[Deep Six]

The OP has a very good question, seems like many companies have experience with this particular swap however I see much more emphasis on selling parts rather than turnkey projects. My FRS is sitting in the garage with an empty engine bay for the second time, most recently $11,000 of built motor got flushed when a rocker arm snapped in two and the entire valve train imploded which led to a forged rod protruding out the top of the block. I'm not spending another dime on FA20 again but I've got about $12K in other track specific upgrades installed and not interested in a part out other than the drive train and JRSC. (was running 90mm pully at the end)


Being able to afford better cars in no way means you can't still have a sweet spot for the twin. Mine is on rolling dollies, patiently waiting till I'm ready to make the swap. I absolutely will seek out a shop that has this experience, plan to use a crate LS3 /T56 and Motec ECU from Pure.


However first up, wife wants a new car and she wants to trade the TTS in for a TTRS as soon as the 19's are available so my project will have to wait. Unfortunately it's not monopoly money involved here. Mean time I will take that platform and see what's possible and make the occasional track foray. Before you snicker it will be at 570hp with APR E85 tune and bolt-ons, MSS springs and camber plates, AP Racing BBK 18x9.5 wheels with 285 R compounds on all 4 corners. What's understeer????

[GrandSport]

I doubt the engine or trans will give you trouble but everything else will. You'll need to spend big money on brakes, wheels, tires, suspension, rear end, axles, COOLING, etc. You can't just shoe-horn 500hp into a 200hp car and drive away. I've seen more LS swapped Miatas on the tow truck coming off the track than actually driving on the track.


I have a Grand Sport, so I a shit ton of cooling designed for a supercharged 650 hp car and "only" 465 and my engine oil temps get to about 270.
Go look at the size of a C7 rear differential and axles. Then look at the FRS' diff.
Then go compare the size of the tires. I run 335 in the rear and 285 up front. Then compare the brakes.

500hp on 215's is going to be pointless. I had a C7 Z51 (245/285) before the C7 GS the difference between the cars is night and day on the track. 500hp on puny brakes isn't going to be much fun.

Go for it, but unless you're going to do serious cooling, brake, tire (widebody), and drivetrain modifications, I'm not sure it's worth your while.

edit: Also, big power and small wheelbase can be a very interesting experience, especially with narrow tires.
Also, the LS3 basically needs dry sump or at least an accusump if you want to track it. Not sure what that does for packaging.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

Being able to afford better cars in no way means you can't still have a sweet spot for the twin. Mine is on rolling dollies, patiently waiting till I'm ready to make the swap. I absolutely will seek out a shop that has this experience, plan to use a crate LS3 /T56 and Motec ECU from Pure.

KAB Customs in North Lauderdale. They did my swap (LS2/TR6060 and Pure Motec) and are finishing an LS3 FRS as we speak. Great individuals with fair pricing.

Originally Posted by GrandSport

I doubt the engine or trans will give you trouble but everything else will. You'll need to spend big money on brakes, wheels, tires, suspension, rear end, axles, COOLING, etc. You can't just shoe-horn 500hp into a 200hp car and drive away. I've seen more LS swapped Miatas on the tow truck coming off the track than actually driving on the track.

The differential has been proven to hold 800 whp and 700ish torque, so that's fine.

In my case, I already had suspension, brakes, 600 hp rated axles, bigger radiator, 275 tires, a vented hood, just upgraded to 1300 CFM dual fans. The car drives and performs great. Yes, I will not be hitting the track ever weekend, as I am first and foremost NOT interested on it, but I wouldn't for a second doubt about taking this car to the track and thrashing it. I've said this before, but 99% of owners do not track their cars, and the other 1% most of them do not race at the track competitively, they do it for fun on an HPDE event with no times or competition. The car would do fine on those type of events.

I'm not saying you're wrong, your corvette is definitely worlds above a better car from the groundup to take the abuse, but for people who cannot afford a 60+K sticker price on a car, swapping the car for less than half the cost of that could be a nice tradeoff. Everything has pros and cons.

[GrabTheWheel]

[QUOTE=Deep Six;3144837]The OP has a very good question, seems like many companies have experience with this particular swap however I see much more emphasis on selling parts rather than turnkey projects. My FRS is sitting in the garage with an empty engine bay for the second time, most recently $11,000 of built motor got flushed when a rocker arm snapped in two and the entire valve train imploded which led to a forged rod protruding out the top of the block. I'm not spending another dime on FA20 again but I've got about $12K in other track specific upgrades installed and not interested in a part out other than the drive train and JRSC. (was running 90mm pulley at the end)


Being able to afford better cars in no way means you can't still have a sweet spot for the twin. Mine is on rolling dollies, patiently waiting till I'm ready to make the swap. I absolutely will seek out a shop that has this experience, plan to use a crate LS3 /T56 and Motec ECU from Pure.]

Deep Six, glad I'm not the only one!! Thought about ordering another FA20 and go with IAG this time but no fucking way!! I could have a stockpile of used FA20's for all the damn money wasted. These engines are disposable when driven hard with power and people need to realize this. If you want to drive it hard with boost have at least a couple extra engines and trans lying around. I can't think of a bigger waste of money than a "built fa20". Maybe just for street or the occasional 1/4 mile pass. But if you are serious about driving hard with double the horsepower start saving for your swap now.

[GrabTheWheel]

Originally Posted by GrandSport

I doubt the engine or trans will give you trouble but everything else will. You'll need to spend big money on brakes, wheels, tires, suspension, rear end, axles, COOLING, etc. You can't just shoe-horn 500hp into a 200hp car and drive away. I've seen more LS swapped Miatas on the tow truck coming off the track than actually driving on the track.


I have a Grand Sport, so I a shit ton of cooling designed for a supercharged 650 hp car and "only" 465 and my engine oil temps get to about 270.
Go look at the size of a C7 rear differential and axles. Then look at the FRS' diff.
Then go compare the size of the tires. I run 335 in the rear and 285 up front. Then compare the brakes.

500hp on 215's is going to be pointless. I had a C7 Z51 (245/285) before the C7 GS the difference between the cars is night and day on the track. 500hp on puny brakes isn't going to be much fun.

Go for it, but unless you're going to do serious cooling, brake, tire (widebody), and drivetrain modifications, I'm not sure it's worth your while.

edit: Also, big power and small wheelbase can be a very interesting experience, especially with narrow tires.
Also, the LS3 basically needs dry sump or at least an accusump if you want to track it. Not sure what that does for packaging.

This is not going to be a budget swap. No expense will be spared. Cooling, traction, brakes will all be addressed. I'm thinking of sending the car to Phil at Element tuning for his monster 86 swap or the guys at Pure automotive. Stock cars even ones built by GM for the track can have trouble handling the abuse. My ZL1 trans will overheat at the track after 25 min just about every time. Now I'm sure I wouldn't have this experience with a Grandsport or SS 1LE but I don't want either of those cars. I want a sub 3000 lbs BRZ with big NA power. Will it be as fast as a Grandsport maybe not but I'm not winning any big cardboard checks or trophies just in it for the fun and love of it.