OFT vs. Ecutek

[*LongFella]

[DJCarbine]

Originally Posted by *LongFella

If the popcorn is buttered with knowledge, I'll have some too

[*LongFella]

Originally Posted by DJCarbine

If the popcorn is buttered with knowledge, I'll have some too

I wish! I'm a noob to the "tuning" side of car modification. So I'm catching up on reading and subscribing to threads

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by Malt

In fairness the newest update from ecutek allows flashing of off the shelf maps but you will need to buy the cable to do so yourself.

If all you need is off the shelf maps then OFT is the cheaper of the two options with the added benefit of data logging through the device without the need of a laptop.

EDIT: not sure why the last poster said that ecutek is a no brainer for custom etunes since that option is also available to OFT users. The only thing that shiv doesn't current do is etunes for forced induction (which will change in the future since he's got at least two FI tunes coming out soon) There is nothing keeping a tuner from using open source tuning and flashing the map with the OFT.

The reason is because the logging isn't robust enough to do it right yet, in my opinion. Others may disagree, but I wouldn't tune a car remotely based on the params available today.

[FrsDuke]

Originally Posted by jamesm

The reason is because the logging isn't robust enough to do it right yet, in my opinion. Others may disagree, but I wouldn't tune a car remotely based on the params available today.

But I think you would agree the tunes in their base configuration are pretty damn stellar, and you know they are adding a ton of new params to log soon.

I don't want to put words in your mouth at all, and I recognize that you are actually an advocate for oft, but it seems to me that you are lumping trivial or meaningless differences in alongside the meaningful differences where it concerns the vast majority of users.

I have mad respect for your abilities, knowledge, and contributions to the community, but harping on things that are clearly temporary diminishes the impact of the more meaningful points you make. Hope that came off right.

Meaningful (to a select few) differences in my mind are custom tables, SD, flex fuel, and software that is more developed for the very adept tuner.

I've never tuned anything newer than obd0 and I don't have the time/resources to master all the new toys available so I clearly won't be toying with the same stuff you will. Oft and ecutek have very different target markets. Ecutek sells to tuners. Oft sells to end users. Ecutek opening up for end user tinkering does not make them user friendly to the majority of end users.

Anyway I think both are great for different reasons and I know you agree. I honestly don't know why there is even debate about it anymore. If you are going to deal with a tuner you like then go with their advised solution. If you are a tuner then pick the option you like. If you just want an upgraded tune without visiting a dyno the oft wins on price and convenience and that's the majority of the market.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by FrsDuke

But I think you would agree the tunes in their base configuration are pretty damn stellar, and you know they are adding a ton of new params to log soon.

I don't want to put words in your mouth at all, and I recognize that you are actually an advocate for oft, but it seems to me that you are lumping trivial or meaningless differences in alongside the meaningful differences where it concerns the vast majority of users.

I have mad respect for your abilities, knowledge, and contributions to the community, but harping on things that are clearly temporary diminishes the impact of the more meaningful points you make. Hope that came off right.

Meaningful (to a select few) differences in my mind are custom tables, SD, flex fuel, and software that is more developed for the very adept tuner.

I've never tuned anything newer than obd0 and I don't have the time/resources to master all the new toys available so I clearly won't be toying with the same stuff you will. Oft and ecutek have very different target markets. Ecutek sells to tuners. Oft sells to end users. Ecutek opening up for end user tinkering does not make them user friendly to the majority of end users.

Anyway I think both are great for different reasons and I know you agree. I honestly don't know why there is even debate about it anymore. If you are going to deal with a tuner you like then go with their advised solution. If you are a tuner then pick the option you like. If you just want an upgraded tune without visiting a dyno the oft wins on price and convenience and that's the majority of the market.

i think we pretty much agree 100%. i don't see where anything you just said is in disagreement with anything i've said before. the guy asked why i would recommend ecutek for an e-tune, and i gave what i think you'll agree is, today, a very valid reasoning. if you can't log all the knock params, you can't really e-tune. of course i'd argue that you shouldn't be e-tuning this car to begin with, but that's another topic .

i recommend oft to 90% of the people that ask me, and a lot of people ask me. i do however think that some of the limitations to the system are downplayed for the other 10%, that is all. i think trivial and meaningless are in the eyes of the beholder. a guy planning on boosting his car should know that he can't have a boost cut with oft for example, and it's not often mentioned on here (except by me apparently lol). i say this from experience because i myself wasted money on software that nobody told me couldn't do it.

and yes the oft ots maps are, from what i've seen, the best you can get without doing it yourself (if they have one for you).

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by jamesm

i think we pretty much agree 100%. i don't see where anything you just said is in disagreement with anything i've said before. the guy asked why i would recommend ecutek for an e-tune, and i gave what i think you'll agree is, today, a very valid reasoning. if you can't log all the knock params, you can't really e-tune. of course i'd argue that you shouldn't be e-tuning this car to begin with, but that's another topic .

i recommend oft to 90% of the people that ask me, and a lot of people ask me. i do however think that some of the limitations to the system are downplayed for the other 10%, that is all. i think trivial and meaningless are in the eyes of the beholder. a guy planning on boosting his car should know that he can't have a boost cut with oft for example, and it's not often mentioned on here (except by me apparently lol). i say this from experience because i myself wasted money on software that nobody told me couldn't do it.

and yes the oft ots maps are, from what i've seen, the best you can get without doing it yourself (if they have one for you).

so you are telling me there is no g/rev limit in any of those tables that could be used to trim overboost with a spark cut?

Or are you saying that it involves more understanding of the actual logic that runs the car than you currently have or wish to gain? Honest question

[FrsDuke]

Originally Posted by jamesm

i think we pretty much agree 100%. i don't see where anything you just said is in disagreement with anything i've said before. the guy asked why i would recommend ecutek for an e-tune, and i gave what i think you'll agree is, today, a very valid reasoning. if you can't log all the knock params, you can't really e-tune. of course i'd argue that you shouldn't be e-tuning this car to begin with, but that's another topic .

i recommend oft to 90% of the people that ask me, and a lot of people ask me. i do however think that some of the limitations to the system are downplayed for the other 10%, that is all. i think trivial and meaningless are in the eyes of the beholder. a guy planning on boosting his car should know that he can't have a boost cut with oft for example, and it's not often mentioned on here (except by me apparently lol). i say this from experience because i myself wasted money on software that nobody told me couldn't do it.

and yes the oft ots maps are, from what i've seen, the best you can get without doing it yourself (if they have one for you).

I think I wrote that addressed to you, but more for everyone else's benefit lol.

Anyway, I for one am glad to have you looking at all angles. It helps both sides continue to improve which is what I want to see. It's easy to argue that the vast majority don't need this or that, but some people want it regardless. Maybe it's comfort level or familiarity or preference, but it doesn't really matter why someone prefers SD or flex fuel. All that matters is that is what they prefer and are willing to pay for it.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

so you are telling me there is no g/rev limit in any of those tables that could be used to trim overboost with a spark cut?

Or are you saying that it involves more understanding of the actual logic that runs the car than you currently have or wish to gain? Honest question

you mean something like scaling the load in base timing out past what you expect to see then cutting spark in those cells? that's a possible hack, i suppose. i've never tried it as you'd be sacrificing resolution where you actually need it. alternatively you could run 100% port injection and use port vs. mrp compensation, but then you'd have no DI.

in any case, i wouldn't use a load calc to guess what boost i'm at. i'd use the map sensor as intended. maybe i'm wrong and there's a way to do it without sacrificing anything at all, i don't know, i just use a custom map that solves the problem directly. if you know of one, i'd certainly appreciate you contributing that knowledge as it would allow some of my boosted friends to save some money if they choose.

[SkullWorks]

Originally Posted by jamesm

you mean something like scaling the load in base timing out past what you expect to see then cutting spark in those cells? that's a possible hack, i suppose. i've never tried it as you'd be sacrificing resolution where you actually need it. alternatively you could run 100% port injection and use port vs. mrp compensation, but then you'd have no DI.

in any case, i wouldn't use a load calc to guess what boost i'm at. i'd use the map sensor as intended. maybe i'm wrong and there's a way to do it without sacrificing anything at all, i don't know, i just use a custom map that solves the problem directly. if you know of one, i'd certainly appreciate you contributing that knowledge as it would allow some of my boosted friends to save some money if they choose.

If I had one I would have certainly shared, that's why it was an honest question. I know there are lots of custom bits of code flying around romraider for other Subaru applications, I'm (very nearly) certain someone else has had to sort thru this before, it may just be a matter of stealing some of the code that Sucbaru uses to manage boost on factory FI cars

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

If I had one I would have certainly shared, that's why it was an honest question. I know there are lots of custom bits of code flying around romraider for other Subaru applications, I'm (very nearly) certain someone else has had to sort thru this before, it may just be a matter of stealing some of the code that Sucbaru uses to manage boost on factory FI cars

it will come in due time i'm sure... but there's nothing there today that i've been able to find that will do the job without sacrificing anything else. the best bet right now is port/mrp comp and running straight port injection, but that's not something i'd be willing to give up for a couple hundred bucks personally.

[EAGLE5]

Unless you're going FI right now, I'd get an OFT or an OpenPort. By the time you do go FI, they might support more features. If they don't, they're easy to resell. EcuTek, however, sucks for resale since, once you install it, the license is locked to the ECU. OpenPort and Tactrix also do just fine with superchargers.

[nelsmar]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

According to JR, it uses MAF, not SD hybrid. Same with Vortech and AVO.

Originally Posted by jamesm

i've never tuned one, but i do believe @nelsmar hit 5v rather quickly on the JR kit. again i havent experienced this myself, but based on my experience with a 3", and looking at their maf tube, it seems very reasonable to believe.

We struggled passing 6800 depending on conditions. I believe the car had a front cat but I could be wrong. Header was an agency power catless, I forget what exhaust. After about 6,400RPM it was out of my comfort zone for MAF reading. Depending on conditions.

Here is a screenshot showing 4.8V as low as 6400RPM. I had seen the MAF maxed as low as ~6900RPM @ 5.0V if I recall. But I would have to parse through logs. We atttempted to tune it on MAF but I do not deem this safe over 6,400RPM for this specific vehicle and we will be re-tuning on a SD hybrid once the owner is back in town.

Testing was @ 1,100FT elevation 70F ambient, near 0 humidity.



I would love to see one of these on a catted car to see how far the MAF is stretched.

[jamesm]

That maf tube is a major fail on their part. Smaller than stock, right?