Difference between ID1050 and DW700 Injectors

[86TOYO2k17]

What about OEM vs 1050x? for drive ability, tuning, quality of life etc... assuming you’re not maxing out oem maybe at 80-85% and OEM are working just fine. Does the 1050x atomize better or have more precision?

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

What about OEM vs 1050x? for drive ability, tuning, quality of life etc... assuming you’re not maxing out oem maybe at 80-85% and OEM are working just fine. Does the 1050x atomize better or have more precision?

The OEM port injectors are like 200s, so there isn’t a whole lot of overhead. You can’t run the direct injectors at 80%, so you are limited there too. Most people max out NA with E85 and most don’t go over 10-12ish psi on stock injectors. It depends on the tuner. Some tuners don’t want to mess too much with direct injectors, so the ports will run out fast.

[kev0]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

The OEM port injectors are like 200s, so there isn’t a whole lot of overhead. You can’t run the direct injectors at 80%, so you are limited there too. Most people max out NA with E85 and most don’t go over 10-12ish psi on stock injectors. It depends on the tuner. Some tuners don’t want to mess too much with direct injectors, so the ports will run out fast.

So injectors are pretty much mandatory when going E85, let alone FI. I don't understand why many people said stock fuel system is good enough for a flex fuel tune. I'm going to pick up some injectors ASAP now. Question is...If i'm not making above 260whp, do I have to pick up an aftermarket fuel pump as well to supply enough fuel to the injectors or can I get away with just getting 700cc injectors?

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

The OEM port injectors are like 200s, so there isn’t a whole lot of overhead. You can’t run the direct injectors at 80%, so you are limited there too. Most people max out NA with E85 and most don’t go over 10-12ish psi on stock injectors. It depends on the tuner. Some tuners don’t want to mess too much with direct injectors, so the ports will run out fast.

That wasn’t my question. I know the max capabilities. And Port injection can be ran at 100%. but obviously not ideal for a number of reasons. 80-85% should be fine though.

What one is better? Not for overhead/max potential. but tune-ability, drive-ability, precision, better atomization etc...

If oem is 200cc 1% would be 2cc vs 1050cc 1% is 10.5cc. So does OEMs have a lot more precision, or does the 1050x make up for it in someway? can the 1050x limit flow enough that at idle or low rpm it’s not super rich?

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by kev0

So injectors are pretty much mandatory when going E85, let alone FI. I don't understand why many people said stock fuel system is good enough for a flex fuel tune. I'm going to pick up some injectors ASAP now. Question is...If i'm not making above 260whp, do I have to pick up an aftermarket fuel pump as well to supply enough fuel to the injectors or can I get away with just getting 700cc injectors?

Lots of people make 300whp on E85 stock injectors. And a ton of people are boosted at far less power. So saying it’s mandatory for FI is a stretch.

I’m at 12.5psi E45 WMI Probably making 285-290whp and tuner has no concerns on my injectors. Even if E85 with no WMI it would be pushing similar numbers and be pretty close to maxing injectors so it might be advised at that point but sprintex is probably the least efficient blower for top end power with how much parasitic draw the blower takes.

[kev0]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

Lots of people make 300whp on E85 stock injectors. And a ton of people are boosted at far less power. So saying it’s mandatory for FI is a stretch.

I’m at 12.5psi E45 WMI Probably making 285-290whp and tuner has no concerns on my injectors. Even if E85 with no WMI it would be pushing similar numbers and be pretty close to maxing injectors so it might be advised at that point but sprintex is probably the least efficient blower for top end power with how much parasitic draw the blower takes.

Ah, okay. Got it. I did have Zach look over my datalogs before and he included this in his response:

"Also, any reason why you're running ethanol on stock injectors with boost? Though possible, you're stretching the limits and shortening the life on the fuel system. You're also going to be getting very poor atomization and essentially zero rest time on both sets of injectors, vastly increasing chance of failure for various components. Just so you know!"

Like I said earlier, so many conflicting information but injectors are pretty cheap so I might as well get it.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by kev0

Ah, okay. Got it. I did have Zach look over my datalogs before and he included this in his response:

"Also, any reason why you're running ethanol on stock injectors with boost? Though possible, you're stretching the limits and shortening the life on the fuel system. You're also going to be getting very poor atomization and essentially zero rest time on both sets of injectors, vastly increasing chance of failure for various components. Just so you know!"

Like I said earlier, so many conflicting information but injectors are pretty cheap so I might as well get it.

Are you on 69mm pulley?

[kev0]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

Are you on 69mm pulley?

Nope, 72.5mm

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by kev0

So injectors are pretty much mandatory when going E85, let alone FI. I don't understand why many people said stock fuel system is good enough for a flex fuel tune. I'm going to pick up some injectors ASAP now. Question is...If i'm not making above 260whp, do I have to pick up an aftermarket fuel pump as well to supply enough fuel to the injectors or can I get away with just getting 700cc injectors?

The stock fuel pump will be fine. I upgraded just because it wasn’t much more, and I felt it was worth it to do it all at once just in case the future required it.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

That wasn’t my question. I know the max capabilities. And Port injection can be ran at 100%. but obviously not ideal for a number of reasons. 80-85% should be fine though.

What one is better? Not for overhead/max potential. but tune-ability, drive-ability, precision, better atomization etc...

If oem is 200cc 1% would be 2cc vs 1050cc 1% is 10.5cc. So does OEMs have a lot more precision, or does the 1050x make up for it in someway? can the 1050x limit flow enough that at idle or low rpm it’s not super rich?

Running them like that is not ideal.

At low loads and idle the car is running on direct injection, so it isn’t an issue. The 1050s will just be better overall than 700s because they are a better Bosch injector, but not necessarily worth it for everyone. If they are 50% more expensive, they not 50% better in terms of other metrics, if that makes sense.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...56&postcount=4

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

Lots of people make 300whp on E85 stock injectors. And a ton of people are boosted at far less power. So saying it’s mandatory for FI is a stretch.

I’m at 12.5psi E45 WMI Probably making 285-290whp and tuner has no concerns on my injectors. Even if E85 with no WMI it would be pushing similar numbers and be pretty close to maxing injectors so it might be advised at that point but sprintex is probably the least efficient blower for top end power with how much parasitic draw the blower takes.

It isn’t mandatory, but it may be better, and depending on the tuner, it may be necessary. Some of tuners might increase direct injectors beyond what might be ideal. Then again, it could just be a difference in theory or preference.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Running them like that is not ideal.

At low loads and idle the car is running on direct injection, so it isn’t an issue. The 1050s will just be better overall than 700s because they are a better Bosch injector, but not necessarily worth it for everyone. If they are 50% more expensive, they not 50% better in terms of other metrics, if that makes sense.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...56&postcount=4

Again not my question. Not talking about 700s

OEM vs 1050x what is better even if OEM still has head room.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by kev0

Ah, okay. Got it. I did have Zach look over my datalogs before and he included this in his response:

"Also, any reason why you're running ethanol on stock injectors with boost? Though possible, you're stretching the limits and shortening the life on the fuel system. You're also going to be getting very poor atomization and essentially zero rest time on both sets of injectors, vastly increasing chance of failure for various components. Just so you know!"

Like I said earlier, so many conflicting information but injectors are pretty cheap so I might as well get it.

I would upgrade. I did my tune with him when he was at DT, and I continue to get updates from Bill at DT. My stock ports were straining even before going E85 at 12psi. I don’t know if it was an issue with my stock injectors, but I wouldn’t have been able to run E85. Maybe it was just me. Running direct injectors too long to compensate for inadequate ports could be an issue. Listen to your tuner or get another tuner, but don’t ignore your tuner’s advice.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

If oem is 200cc 1% would be 2cc vs 1050cc 1% is 10.5cc. So does OEMs have a lot more precision, or does the 1050x make up for it in someway? can the 1050x limit flow enough that at idle or low rpm it’s not super rich?

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

Again not my question. Not talking about 700s

OEM vs 1050x what is better even if OEM still has head room.

I don’t know the oem port injectors brand or quality. The question was a non-starter because the port injectors aren’t utilized at low loads and during idling, so it doesn’t matter if the OEM ones are as good or better than the ID1050s at low loads. The direct injectors can fine tune fuel delivery. The system is not dependent on the ID1050s, and I doubt they are big enough when they do kick on to matter like you described. These aren’t like old Hondas running monster 2000cc+ injectors in isolation and having idling problems because the injectors can’t be modulated to handle low fuel demands.