Oil Cooler/Reliability Mods

[racingfool]

Originally Posted by ZDan

On even the hottest track days, my oil temp goes up to ~272F on the factory gauge and reliably holds there, never tries to creep up.

What does your oil pressure look like?

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by racingfool

What does your oil pressure look like?

Don't know, no gauge or data acq...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Lots of high-power cars will have runaway oil overheating at the track without (and even with) a cooler. The FT86 does not have this problem. At least I haven't encountered it. On even the hottest track days, my oil temp goes up to ~272F on the factory gauge and reliably holds there, never tries to creep up.

When I bought the car I figured I'd *have* to get an oil cooler to track it as that was the conventional wisdom here on the forums. As I researched it I came to the conclusion that for me, and I'd bet for *most* of us who track these cars, an oil cooler is just not necessary. If I'd ever encountered uncontrolled oil temperatures continuing to climb above ~285 or so, for sure I'd have gotten an oil cooler.

I would definitely recommend at least 30-wt synthetic and frequent changes for track usage...

You've got a lot of experience, and are likely intentionally/subconciously driving in a more efficient manner that doesn't generate as much heat.

I've lost count of how many novices I've seen spin a bearing or sieze a motor completely due to their oil thinning out, on their first/second/third track day. Well into the double digits.

Plus, lower oil temps will lead to better long term wear.

I'm sure you've been in the right seat before. How often do you see novices unwittingly hold redline in a lower gear because they're so mentally overloaded? Try holding 7000 rpm in 2nd gear on the highway, while watching your temps.

Some folks can get away without an oil cooler, but I definitely prefer to err on the side of caution.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by racingfool

What does your oil pressure look like?

You either spin a bearing or you don't.

[TommyW]

Since heat is the nemesis of any engine and oil in the 220-240 range is considered optimal for longevity by most why would you not want to attempt to stay in that range. An oil cooler for the track just seems to be a no brainer common sense wise.

[racingfool]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Don't know, don't care...

Good to know.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

unwittingly hold redline in a lower gear

I'll see autocrossers bounce of the redline for 5 seconds at a time or more.
Makes me cringe every time.

[SCFD]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Lots of high-power cars will have runaway oil overheating at the track without (and even with) a cooler. The FT86 does not have this problem. At least I haven't encountered it. On even the hottest track days, my oil temp goes up to ~272F on the factory gauge and reliably holds there, never tries to creep up.

When I bought the car I figured I'd *have* to get an oil cooler to track it as that was the conventional wisdom here on the forums. As I researched it I came to the conclusion that for me, and I'd bet for *most* of us who track these cars, an oil cooler is just not necessary. If I'd ever encountered uncontrolled oil temperatures continuing to climb above ~285 or so, for sure I'd have gotten an oil cooler.

I would definitely recommend at least 30-wt synthetic and frequent changes for track usage...

What track was this on, how long is each session, and what is ambient temperature on a hot track day?

On my previous car, I'd change the oil every 3,000mi/5,000km (5-6 track days). Would this be considered frequent enough for the BRZ?

[e21jason]

For most VLN GT86 cars rear diff upgrades are more common. TGM released a Technote on repacking the CV joints with High temp grease and adding a breather tube.

A lot of the teams run solid bushes to raise the diff up to reduce drive shaft angles, drive shaft failures are probably the most common failure, not sure if you would go that far on track days

The ring is a lot harder on a car than a normal race track, its a toll road, so the surface is bumpy, there are many more of camber corners, traffic is a nightmare, locals in very rapid old golf GTI's rental GT3 Porsche, Tourist Busses.


Normal trackday prep and spanner check, seat time and start with handling upgrades once you happy with the car

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

You've got a lot of experience, and are likely intentionally/subconciously driving in a more efficient manner that doesn't generate as much heat.

Interesting theory, but basically foot to the floor up to 7400rpm every session, I don't think there should be much variability in oil temps between novice and expert...

I've lost count of how many novices I've seen spin a bearing or sieze a motor completely due to their oil thinning out, on their first/second/third track day. Well into the double digits.

Hmm, I've been tracking since ~1995, and engine failures have been exceedingly rare. And often related to aftermarket equipment! Guy lost his brand new pro-built race engine due to same f-up with the dry sump setup...

Plus, lower oil temps will lead to better long term wear.

I *think* (could be wrong...) that for the range of temps we're talking about (up to ~275F), as long as you are in the right ballpark with viscosity and pressure at operating temp, there shouldn't be much if any effect on longevity.

Also, car is daily-driven and I like that the oil gets up to temp quickly. Even with a thermostat, engines take a longer to get up to temp with an oil cooler.

Nice short article from Hot Rod (some may scoff but these guys know engines infinitely better than the more mainstream mags):
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/engine-oil-temperature/
For a dual-purpose car, engine oil needs to be at least 220 degrees F to burn off all the deposits and accumulated water vapor.
A quality conventional motor oil will tolerate oil sump temperatures of up to 250 degrees, but starts breaking down over 275 degrees.
Even on a short-duration, drag-only combo where oil is frequently changed, I would not want to routinely see under-200-degree oil temps.
A full-synthetic oil will withstand sump temperatures in excess of 300 degrees, and for hard-core professional racing, some oval-track race teams are experimenting with ultra-thin, specially formulated, race-only synthetics operating at 350 degrees or even higher.

I'm sure you've been in the right seat before. How often do you see novices unwittingly hold redline in a lower gear because they're so mentally overloaded? Try holding 7000 rpm in 2nd gear on the highway, while watching your temps.

I've ridden in the right-seat with one or usually two students every event (except this year!) since ~2007. Usually if this happens, it's only for the first few laps even with absolute-beginner students...

Some folks can get away without an oil cooler, but I definitely prefer to err on the side of caution.

However it must be considered that erring on the side of caution can be costly. Leaks and fires happen. At least one guy on these forums lost an engine due to a leaking oil cooler!

When I worked at Lockheed-Martin I had to update the Force Structural Maintenance Plan for C5 aircraft (the 2nd boringest job I've had in my engineering career). It was important to not overspecify inspections and parts replacements because at a certain point the risk of damage during inspection/replacement and also the risk of replacement parts being defective becomes a greater risk than not doing anything!

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by SCFD

What track was this on, how long is each session, and what is ambient temperature on a hot track day?

New Hampshire Motor Speewday, Thompson (CT) Speedway, Palmer (MA), Mont Tremblant, Watkins Glen. Sessions usually ~15 minutes. Highest ambient was ~95F at Thompson. My Cayman ran hot (coolant temp) there, but BRZ coolant and oil temps remained stable (oil at ~272F indicated on stock gauge, where it always goes).

On my previous car, I'd change the oil every 3,000mi/5,000km (5-6 track days). Would this be considered frequent enough for the BRZ?

IMO, good full-synthetic 30(or 40)-weight oil, yeah. I usually change after four track days (~4 track hours), just did 5th track day on this oil which is about to get changed out for 0W20 for the off-season.

[jflogerzi]

Oil cooler, Brake pads, Fluid change and your golden for now.

[racingfool]

Originally Posted by ZDan

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/engine-oil-temperature/

Interesting article.
But, the question I have is, what is the minimum oil temp before driving it hard up to redline (full synthetic)?

What Is The Optimum Engine Oil Temperature?

I was hoping for a bit more info with that title.

[EndlessAzure]

Originally Posted by racingfool

Interesting article.
But, the question I have is, what is the minimum oil temp before driving it hard up to redline (full synthetic)?

I was hoping for a bit more info with that title.

Based on personal experience, I wouldn't redline the car until at least 70C/160F on oil temp


Oil pressure is super high on the FA20 when the oil is cold. When you start the car bone cold, the cold start at 2k RPM is about 8 Bar/115 psi, about 20% higher than the typical pressure for redline warm (~6.5 Bar/95 psi)

[ZionsWrath]

Is there any data on effects on running oil below operating temp for prolonged periods?
With JR oil cooler I could not reach operating temp on the street without hooning, it would stay around 170 even blocked off with a cardboard.
But it performed flawlessly on the track.