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Old 10-17-2020, 07:41 PM   #43
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OP, I would fight this charge tooth and nail. It will be on your record for a long time and it's a BS charge.
I will know better when I attend the summons meeting in Feb and see.the cop's evidence. I'm hoping they drop it considering whether they get a conviction or not, I have already received considerable punishment. The sad part is the conversation with the cop started out with him saying he could charge me with stunt driving if he "wanted" to, meaning he wasn't necessarily decided to do so at that point. This guy had a real high opinion of himself, I could just tell when he made a point of saying he was a "staff" sergeant. At this point I might have to take a hard hit and lawyer up if it looks like they want to punish me further. I didn't deliberately break traction, I just drove in a way that resulted in it for a second. I was heavy on the gas, but that's not the same thing as going out with the intent to burn rubber. Conditions, temperature etc. played a role. I wouldn't say this in court but the 13.5C temps, first cool day of the season probably resulted in my forced induction system producing more power than usual. This is a car that is never driven in the cold and rarely driven in cooler weather. I didn't know the exact temp at the time but my car is definitely quicker in colder temps.
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Old 10-17-2020, 08:07 PM   #44
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I will know better when I attend the summons meeting in Feb and see.the cop's evidence. I'm hoping they drop it considering whether they get a conviction or not, I have already received considerable punishment. The sad part is the conversation with the cop started out with him saying he could charge me with stunt driving if he "wanted" to, meaning he wasn't necessarily decided to do so at that point. This guy had a real high opinion of himself, I could just tell when he made a point of saying he was a "staff" sergeant. At this point I might have to take a hard hit and lawyer up if it looks like they want to punish me further. I didn't deliberately break traction, I just drove in a way that resulted in it for a second. I was heavy on the gas, but that's not the same thing as going out with the intent to burn rubber. Conditions, temperature etc. played a role. I wouldn't say this in court but the 13.5C temps, first cool day of the season probably resulted in my forced induction system producing more power than usual. This is a car that is never driven in the cold and rarely driven in cooler weather. I didn't know the exact temp at the time but my car is definitely quicker in colder temps.

Are you on summer tires? At 13.5C you likely hit the dew point. It's not visible on asphalt unless you have near perfect lighting. I do this all the time in my FWD while accelerating. The tires are garbage.
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Old 10-17-2020, 08:11 PM   #45
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Each insurance company is different but *most* will give you a freebie "minor" conviction. I was convicted for rolling a stop sign 2 years ago and then a few weeks later, made an at-fault insurance claim for backing into a wall by accident, and my insurance premiums did not change. I suspect your insurance company considers a 20 over conviction as a major which would be why your premiums went up.

I can see 20 over being a major in a school zone. I was doing 133 on the 401 by Chatam. It's known to be heavily patrolled. DUH! It was my fault and I owned up to it immediately. I guess I should thank him again for dropping it down lol
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Old 10-18-2020, 09:39 PM   #46
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OP, I would fight this charge tooth and nail. It will be on your record for a long time and it's a BS charge.

Doesn't matter, even if he wins the suspension stays on his record.
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Old 10-18-2020, 09:45 PM   #47
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I will know better when I attend the summons meeting in Feb and see.the cop's evidence. I'm hoping they drop it considering whether they get a conviction or not, I have already received considerable punishment. The sad part is the conversation with the cop started out with him saying he could charge me with stunt driving if he "wanted" to, meaning he wasn't necessarily decided to do so at that point. This guy had a real high opinion of himself, I could just tell when he made a point of saying he was a "staff" sergeant.

No offense, but you're coming off exactly the same way as you're describing the officer.

You started it off by calling him sergeant, then continued it by correcting him on the definition of the law.

Yes sir, no sir, here you go sir, thank you sir. If you had just shut your mouth and not tried to appear smarter than him you probably would have driven away with a warning and nothing else.
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Old 10-18-2020, 10:07 PM   #48
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wparsons, we will never know for sure, and actually I was fixated on saying it wasnt a 4 wheel slide when he said that's why. Regardless, it's damage control now and I don't think I will allow them to inflict any further damage if I can do anything about it.

The Covid19 stuff might have me off my game regards to how I responded emotionally but that isn't the evidence that results in a conviction, either. Did I mention I have been unemployed since Covid19?
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Old 10-19-2020, 08:59 AM   #49
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You really need to stop playing the victim game. The more you comment the more I think there is to the other side of the story and you mouthing off (even if you don't realize it).

Also; if they're watching then the more you post in here the more they have to bring to court. Stop being foolish, stop posting online, take it to court and see what happens.
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Old 10-19-2020, 10:56 AM   #50
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And the kangaroo court begins...

The very first contact with the police officer, when I rolled down my window I had my mask on and I politely commented that he too should be wearing a mask. He was standing right next to my car. He replied back that he doesn't because he's working outdoors. I have a 92 year old father that lives in a retirement home who I was still hoping I could continue to visit, so take it for what it's worth. All the other officers at the scene wore masks that I could see. Hush hush on the web! Loose lips sink ships!

None of this is admissible in a court. This is more or less for public information. I'm not spreading to broad social media here either. Too busy.
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Old 10-19-2020, 12:36 PM   #51
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Hey man, I'm actually an officer working in Ontario. I read the posts and your story seems believable. I have to agree giving a stunt charge for losing traction is a little bit over the edge, but it is what it is. I personally never charged anyone for losing traction but it does warrant a traffic stop to assess the driver's condition and possible impairment. I only personally give stunt charges when I have someone on radar over 50km/h in the posted zone. I also assess their driving record, it's an important factor in my decision. I usually won't charge someone for stunt on a first charge. I know how financially stressful it could be with losing your car for 7 days, reinstatement fees, impound fees, insurance doubling, lawyer costs and the list goes on. I sure hope you do have a good driving record, this will help your case.

I agree if you are falsely accused then you should have a respectful chat with the officer. Don't start educating him about the laws or making excuses, chances are unless you're an experience lawyer, he knows the law better than you do, especially as a Staff Sargent.

Sometimes I see a super speeder or someone just being a really bad driver. I come out of the cruiser with an enforcement attitude. You know what changes everything? Someone being respectful and saying "Sorry officer, I fucked up today." That gives me back faith in humanity and I usually reduce the charge (unless it's a serious offence, of course).

My advice : Get a lawyer, calmly explain your story in Court when the time comes, dress appropriately.

I hope you did not admit to the officer going 30 over the speed limit, because this will look bad.

Best of luck to you. I know it's super frustrating but there's nothing you can do about it right now. I hope you can find new employment soon as well. Tough times.

We aren't all bad. Not all of us abuse their power. It's a tough time for us too.

Be safe out there!
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Old 10-19-2020, 02:04 PM   #52
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wparsons, we will never know for sure, and actually I was fixated on saying it wasnt a 4 wheel slide when he said that's why. Regardless, it's damage control now and I don't think I will allow them to inflict any further damage if I can do anything about it.

The Covid19 stuff might have me off my game regards to how I responded emotionally but that isn't the evidence that results in a conviction, either. Did I mention I have been unemployed since Covid19?
I'm not saying who was right or wrong... just that if you had kept your mouth shut and not corrected him you very likely would have driven away with a warning.

Doesn't matter if he was completely making it up, "yes sir, no sir, sorry sir, thank you sir" then fight it later. You're never going to talk your way out of a ticket at the scene by correcting an officer, it's always going to make it worse for you.

From the start your words could've been different, and could likely have prevented the whole situation from escalating.

Instead of "you should be wearing a mask" you could've said "I'm sorry officer, but I have an elderly parent that I'm partially responsible for their care, would you mind wearing a mask to help keep me safe?"

Words and tone matter, a lot.
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Old 10-20-2020, 12:09 AM   #53
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Hey man, I'm actually an officer working in Ontario. I read the posts and your story seems believable. I have to agree giving a stunt charge for losing traction is a little bit over the edge, but it is what it is. I personally never charged anyone for losing traction but it does warrant a traffic stop to assess the driver's condition and possible impairment. I only personally give stunt charges when I have someone on radar over 50km/h in the posted zone. I also assess their driving record, it's an important factor in my decision. I usually won't charge someone for stunt on a first charge. I know how financially stressful it could be with losing your car for 7 days, reinstatement fees, impound fees, insurance doubling, lawyer costs and the list goes on. I sure hope you do have a good driving record, this will help your case.

I agree if you are falsely accused then you should have a respectful chat with the officer. Don't start educating him about the laws or making excuses, chances are unless you're an experience lawyer, he knows the law better than you do, especially as a Staff Sargent.

Sometimes I see a super speeder or someone just being a really bad driver. I come out of the cruiser with an enforcement attitude. You know what changes everything? Someone being respectful and saying "Sorry officer, I fucked up today." That gives me back faith in humanity and I usually reduce the charge (unless it's a serious offence, of course). But you're right, we only remember the bad ones and tend to forget the good peeps out there.

My advice : Get a lawyer, calmly explain your story in Court when the time comes, dress appropriately.

I hope you did not admit to the officer going 30 over the speed limit, because this will look bad.

Best of luck to you. I know it's super frustrating but there's nothing you can do about it right now. I hope you can find new employment soon as well. Tough times.

We aren't all bad. Not all of us abuse their power. It's a tough time for us too.

Be safe out there!
Wow, thanks for explaining the other side of the coin officer! We need more of you out there.

While I haven't had many run-ins with cops (I can count on two hands - most of them were RIDE checks), I have had one bad run in Toronto and was mostly upset at myself but I recall vividly the cop coming off a bit... stand-off-ish. Nonetheless, I fought the ticket politely in court and the prosecutor didn't bother.

Like you said, if we could all be a little bit nicer to each other, the world would be a much better place.
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Old 10-20-2020, 02:24 PM   #54
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Wow, thanks for explaining the other side of the coin officer! We need more of you out there.

While I haven't had many run-ins with cops (I can count on two hands - most of them were RIDE checks), I have had one bad run in Toronto and was mostly upset at myself but I recall vividly the cop coming off a bit... stand-off-ish. Nonetheless, I fought the ticket politely in court and the prosecutor didn't bother.

Like you said, if we could all be a little bit nicer to each other, the world would be a much better place.
I honestly feel the officers have it the worst right now. Followed by first responders and 911 operators.
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Old 10-20-2020, 07:33 PM   #55
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Doesn't matter, even if he wins the suspension stays on his record.

Yes, but he can beat the stunt driving charge. It's a lose, lose really lose.
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Old 10-21-2020, 09:14 AM   #56
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I honestly feel the officers have it the worst right now. Followed by first responders and 911 operators.
I dunno man, paramedics are getting a really raw deal these days.

Mental health amongst them is not really getting addressed and they are working some long ass hours.
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