Only 8600 Toyota 86s will be available in 2017

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by SCQTT

Again, here is evidence of a product developer's nightmare. At least on the Toyota side here is someone (and I'm not specifically picking on you) that prefers their Yaris because of better interior appointment. The 86 is NOT about a nice interior. The seats and driving ergonomics are perfect for a small coupe, but they are not luxurious by any means. Many people bemoan the lack of power and work very had to improve on this aspect, but just as many complain about the interior. Luxury nearly killed the Miata and it made the WRX STI so much less than it should be. The original US spec STI didn't even have a radio. Luxury is weight, weight not only eats HP it creates kinetic energy. Your heated seats need horsepower to accelerate them, but don't forget those seats also have to be stopped and turned, necessitating bigger brakes and more robust suspension and therefore adding more weight.

People complain about the STI "not keeping up with the Jones'" when it comes to HP, but in reality it has become fat.

I'm sure there are even those that would kill for a sunroof. An 8 pound hunk of glass (and the 10 pounds of hardware needed to make it work) at the very top of the car would negate the concept of the low CG 86.

I wish the 86 came with roll up windows.

I think motorcycle guys have a keen sense of this. The difference between a supermoto and a Hayabusa is astounding, but yet they both can be super fun or super frustrating depending on the circumstances.

Yep, over the decades I have watched many nice, light, sports cars slowly morph into bloated GT cruisers. Every single little "luxury" item they add moves the car one step closer to being more Eclipse or Genesis than Miata or S2000. Unfortunately when they decide to broaden the target audience for a car this is the easy route to go. The bulk of the car buying public wants all those extras and eventually they will give in and that will be the end of the car as we currently know it.

[bkharmony]

Originally Posted by Kutanks

Well the dealers near me are absolutely clueless about this car. I asked a salesman about the 86, if they had any I could test out and he tried to get me to buy a corolla or a Camry. When I insisted that I needed something sporty with a manual he suggested a Yaris! Toyota must be losing money on every single one

Yep, the Toyota dealerships really wanted me to get a "sporty" Corolla or maybe a Prius. It was really difficult to explain to them the reasons I wanted an 86, and why a Prius or Corolla with 18" rims didn't address those reasons. They just didn't get it.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The Subaru dealers would be just as happy to put you I something else as well.

They were dying to get me into a WRX.

Basically, none of the 5 dealerships I went to really wanted to sell me an 86/BRZ.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by bkharmony

Yep, the Toyota dealerships really wanted me to get a "sporty" Corolla or maybe a Prius. It was really difficult to explain to them the reasons I wanted an 86, and why a Prius or Corolla with 18" rims didn't address those reasons. They just didn't get it.



They were dying to get me into a WRX.

Basically, none of the 5 dealerships I went to really wanted to sell me an 86/BRZ.

Yep. Some dealers are weird that way.

[Kratzogram]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Yep, over the decades I have watched many nice, light, sports cars slowly morph into bloated GT cruisers. Every single little "luxury" item they add moves the car one step closer to being more Eclipse or Genesis than Miata or S2000. Unfortunately when they decide to broaden the target audience for a car this is the easy route to go. The bulk of the car buying public wants all those extras and eventually they will give in and that will be the end of the car as we currently know it.

Making me think about BMW and the M3 series, look how big and bulky it has become over the generations and spawned to the M4. Now there is the new M2 which, to me, on paper looks like a and probably feels like an e30 M3 even though its heavier and makes more power and really only has 3-5 inches more in dimensions. They kinda went full circle I guess I don't think any Japanese manufactures have done this yet in with any model.

[HunterGreene]

Speaking to the bloat of the WRX/STI, anyone thing that Ford really missed the mark to start a new rivalry between the Focus RS and the STI? AWD turbo sedans born out of Rally Racing? Or do you think that Ford simply doesn't care? Both vehicles have a similar price point with Ford having 45 extra ponies. Just seems like a great way to drive up interest for both brands.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by bkharmony

Yep, the Toyota dealerships really wanted me to get a "sporty" Corolla or maybe a Prius. It was really difficult to explain to them the reasons I wanted an 86, and why a Prius or Corolla with 18" rims didn't address those reasons. They just didn't get it..

Well, there's your problem, you felt you had to explain it to them.

If I go in a dealer wanting Car A and they immediately trying to sell me Car B, I tell them once, I'm only interested in Car A. If they insist, I say thank you for your (non)help and leave.

[Kratzogram]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

Speaking to the bloat of the WRX/STI, anyone thing that Ford really missed the mark to start a new rivalry between the Focus RS and the STI? AWD turbo sedans born out of Rally Racing? Or do you think that Ford simply doesn't care? Both vehicles have a similar price point with Ford having 45 extra ponies. Just seems like a great way to drive up interest for both brands.

Not sure, I just can't justify the price tag. They should have released an RS model a long time ago lol. I work at a Ford dealer and have driven a few, I would get it over the latest WRX/STI. Plus the RS come with winter tire/wheel combo!

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by Kratzogram

Not sure, I just can't justify the price tag. They should have released an RS model a long time ago lol. I work at a Ford dealer and have driven a few, I would get it over the latest WRX/STI. Plus the RS come with winter tire/wheel combo!

Thats what I mean, the winter tire/wheel combo included is one of the things that could really let them pick up where Mitsubishi (aka the most boring cars in America) left off.

[bkharmony]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Well, there's your problem, you felt you had to explain it to them.

If I go in a dealer wanting Car A and they immediately trying to sell me Car B, I tell them once, I'm only interested in Car A. If they insist, I say thank you for your (non)help and leave.

I tried to be patent, but got tired of swatting down their attempts to get me to drive a Corolla. Finally just said "Toyota only makes one car I have any interest in. If you don't want to sell it to me I'll go somewhere else." That fixed the problem.

[se tx]

Before I bought the frs, I went to a miata dealer. He was totally disinterested. Finally I asked him to let me sit in the miata. Glad he did, my legs were too long for the car and the headliner seemed to poke me in the head. Instead of attempting to sell me the miata he said, just go buy a corvette. At least I was allowed to sit in the car and decided quickly that I needed to try the frs: great decision. After one year, I am still totally pleased.

[Calvin27]

Originally Posted by bkharmony

I tried to be patent, but got tired of swatting down their attempts to get me to drive a Corolla. Finally just said "Toyota only makes one car I have any interest in. If you don't want to sell it to me I'll go somewhere else." That fixed the problem.

Same thing here. He tried to sell me a corolla and then i pointed to my honda civic. Then he said camry. I nearly walked out and into the subaru dealer. Mrgin must pretty low for the 86.

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

Speaking to the bloat of the WRX/STI, anyone thing that Ford really missed the mark to start a new rivalry between the Focus RS and the STI? AWD turbo sedans born out of Rally Racing? Or do you think that Ford simply doesn't care? Both vehicles have a similar price point with Ford having 45 extra ponies. Just seems like a great way to drive up interest for both brands.

I suspect it's really a European thing. With the Evo going the way it did, Ford would have been stupid not to jump on it. My hunch is the ford focus rally success and the street offerings came too late and was a little disconnected (awd vs fwd). By the time they stopped winning, the rs was too late.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by Calvin27

I suspect it's really a European thing. With the Evo going the way it did, Ford would have been stupid not to jump on it. My hunch is the ford focus rally success and the street offerings came too late and was a little disconnected (awd vs fwd). By the time they stopped winning, the rs was too late.

Both cars are still current, all it takes is some trash talk by one or the other, and it will start something in the enthusiast community. We've all seen how our fellow fanbois can get riled up by something that small.

[Lynxis]

My experience was different, my dealer was happy to get me into my BRZ but to be fair, I was clear that I went there specifically to look at my car which was already sitting on the lot for a few months. The sales guys I dealt with were interested in a small RWD coupe which isn't something they normally deal with.

Funny story, I was in for service a few months later middle of winter and the sales manager was on the floor and tried to sell me a WRX...

[Weasel Soup]

I like the marketing Toyota is using. I hope that the sale work out the way they did back when the 2002 WRX came out. Subaru expected to sell less than 10,000 of those... They couldn't keep up with demand the first year and still managed to sell something like 15,000 of them.

I was in a place I didn't like when it came to cars in late 2012 early 2013. I thought I knew what I wanted, but wasn't getting the enjoyment out of those cars. I finally caved in and put serious thought and effort into my next car purchase. That was my FRs, and although I had to tweak it for my tastes it is about as perfect a car for me as possible.

I'm glad these cars still exist. And I hope the marketing, production, and sales teams can evolve their goals so that the cars sell near 90% of production going forward so that this "project" stays alive for a long time.

Just keep the technological bloat down, please.