Only 8600 Toyota 86s will be available in 2017

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by D_Thissen

If that trend continues, I would not be surprised if the 86 platform is discontinued in NA.

Yes it will die, however given that they build the same model for sale around the world, it won't just be an NA discontinuation, they'll keep shipping units over here until the factory line is shut down. In the past auto manufacturers had to do more country specific engineering so it was more logical to shut down one version of the car than it is today.

It did very well comparatively speaking, Japanese sports cars simply don't perform in the US market, every Japanese manufacturer does the same thing, lets the model languish on the market for 5-10 years, maybe a minor update in the middle, then kills it. Honda, Nissan, Toyota, and Mazda, all the same with the S2k, NSX, Z/ZX, 240sx, Celica/Tc, MR2, Supra, RX-7, RX-8, and anything else I forgot. All the way back to the 70's, same story.

The only exception is that Mazda is committed to the Miata, but they follow the same dev cycle, expect to see new ND's on dealership lots well past the end of this decade.

This picture is a few years out of date, but it shows just how strong the first 3 years of the 86 were. It certainly exceeded my expectations. In 3 years it outsold the S2000, in 4 it beat out the RX-8 and NC Miata, I doubt it will take out the 350z/370z which in hindsight trashed the Mustang GT for a few years in terms of performance. Maybe if it got a true mk2 model, but I'd be surprised if Toyota committed to continuing the car.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Cole

I always steer people who are interested away from this. For 90% of the population, an EcoBoost Mustang would fit much better. Hell, if I knew then what I know now, I wouldn't have ended up in an FRS, I also would have gotten the mustang.

I always steer people away from the 86 as well, but I feel bad for anyone who willingly spends 25k on a 4 cylinder mustang.

[Cole]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

I always steer people away from the 86 as well, but I feel bad for anyone who willingly spends 25k on a 4 cylinder mustang.

And that's your opinion. Lots of cool things to do to the 4cyl engine that will be able to beat the much more expensive GT for about half of the difference in price.

Different strokes and all that. I don't need a V8 for the same reasons I don't need to drive manual.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Cole

And that's your opinion. Lots of cool things to do to the 4cyl engine that will be able to beat the much more expensive GT for about half of the difference in price.

Different strokes and all that. I don't need a V8 for the same reasons I don't need to drive manual.

I never said anything about v8s.

The v6 Camaro is more responsive, weighs less, has a better chassis, less complicated, and real world gas mileage between the 2 is almost identical. Both will have terrible resale value though.

What you are describing is an automatic Dyno queen mustang. I bet if you drove a mustang GT and a modified Ecoboost, you would ultimately prefer the GT.

[8R6]

Originally Posted by PNW-BRZ

Do these numbers also include the special editions?

yes

[stock]

Originally Posted by shiumai

...and re-introduced in FI!

(I know you meant a different 'NA')

NA now NA in NA.

[stock]

Originally Posted by Prax

Imho, 240-260hp and 200-215tq and the 86 would be the best selling sports car in North America. In a place like Japan the 86 makes a lot of sense with all the mountains and curvy roads, but if you live somewhere mostly flat and boring you need more straight line acceleration to be attractive.

I guess living in western pa makes it the car for me. Curves and hills abound.

[DAEMANO]

This thread again.

Toyota will sell all 8600 2017's with no problem.

Last year Toyota moved over 7000 units. This was in the worst possible sales conditions (poor economy, with a car in the last year before a refresh when used/off-lease 2013's were also in the market).

With that being said Toyota doesn't need to sell more of these cars for them to be viable. The 86 is a niche car that isn't about volume for Toyota. The 86 is the only product bringing young childless relatively affluent buyers to the Toyota brand. That matters more to Toyota than matching sales of Camaro or Mustang (which this car was never intended to do).

Lastly, the only lightweight RWD 2+2's on the market are the Audi TT (which is AWD IIRC) and Lotus Evora. Those cars are nowhere in the ballpark of an 86 on cost. Toyota has this niche all to itself. It's not going to abandon it unchallenged in the way some people here imagine it will. Critical thinking is a bitch.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by mazeroni

In 2016, Toyota sold 6,643,386 vehicles.
Their Net Profit was around $12.8 Billion.

If Toyota can't divest some R&D money to continue building the 86 long into the future...

Except Toyota didn't really commit too much to this car, Subaru did.

It's why the car got built, because one had excess manufacturing and the other had R&D money.

If Toyota was going to commit to making it themselves, they wouldn't because they don't have the spare capacity to support 50k cars WW on an assembly line.

-alex

[Lantana frs]

Its an enthusiasts car, not a corolla so its market is limited to begin with. Imo its sold rather well for a 2 seater with little promotion.

[mazeroni]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Except Toyota didn't really commit too much to this car, Subaru did.

It's why the car got built, because one had excess manufacturing and the other had R&D money.

If Toyota was going to commit to making it themselves, they wouldn't because they don't have the spare capacity to support 50k cars WW on an assembly line.

-alex

That is a fair point, but given their new target is 8600 (US allocation) per year, they don't need 50K capcity, though I understand that it still requires an entire assembly line to build even that small number of cars and you could probably use that space to built a lot more vehicles.

Or, like the upcoming Z5 and Supra, pass it off to an outside manufacturer like Magna Steyr.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by mazeroni

That is a fair point, but given their new target is 8600 (US allocation) per year, they don't need 50K capcity

50k capacity is WW (worldwide).

[darthpnoy1984]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

This thread again.

Toyota will sell all 8600 2017's with no problem.

Last year Toyota moved over 7000 units. This was in the worst possible sales conditions (poor economy, with a car in the last year before a refresh when used/off-lease 2013's were also in the market).

With that being said Toyota doesn't need to sell more of these cars for them to be viable. The 86 is a niche car that isn't about volume for Toyota. The 86 is the only product bringing young childless relatively affluent buyers to the Toyota brand. That matters more to Toyota than matching sales of Camaro or Mustang (which this car was never intended to do).

Lastly, the only lightweight RWD 2+2's on the market are the Audi TT (which is AWD IIRC) and Lotus Evora. Those cars are nowhere in the ballpark of an 86 on cost. Toyota has this niche all to itself. It's not going to abandon it unchallenged in the way some people here imagine it will. Critical thinking is a bitch.

Yeah tell that to the people that surely loves to compare this to the Miata and S2000 LMAFO thats a roadster with no 2+2 seating.


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[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Toyota has this niche all to itself. It's not going to abandon it unchallenged in the way some people here imagine it will. Critical thinking is a bitch.

Mazda had the niche and abandoned it.
Toyota hasn't had any 2+2 RWD since the '90s (in the US), they abandoned the niche for over a decade and during that time dominated the industry without it.
Nissan hasn't bothered since the 90s either, Honda never even tried.

Critical thinking would be reading all the statements, interviews, and history about the development of this car, realizing this is the President's pet project and is likely constantly on the chopping block during board meetings as a frivolous expense.

Hell some would argue that the RX-8 was too heavy and grand-toury to qualify which means we had nearly a decade without one of these on the market. How valuable is fulfilling that niche if literally nobody bothered to challenge it for nearly a decade?