Speeding ticket by pacing

[Djratrap]

Originally Posted by slyphen

I will consider the lawyer route. but if i have to fight it myself, here are my questions/defense for the officer.

The ticket was clocked at 70mph in a 60 zone on I-5.

1. Is your speedometer up to calibration date, if so, please provide calibration certificate and prove that it is.

2. The officer did not pace me properly, he immediately pulled me over as i passed him and did not maintain constant distance or speed as he caught up to me for a reasonable amount of time (usually at minimum 1/8-1/4 mile, i'll have to look a little more into it for washington).

3. According to title 45 article XX, I am allowed to pass on the right provided the condition is safe and the left lane vehicle is going below reasonable speed.

Fighting without a lawyer is a tough one, unless you have evidence. The reality of the situation is lawyers and judges are a "club." Without proper representation your best bet is a reduction or a deferral. If you're lucky they might make you pay, but not effect your driving record.

[rixter145]

Or set a court date, and give excuses every time to not show. Eventually the paper work piles up and it won't be worth it for them to keep the ticket

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by PNW FRS

#2 is the only one that MIGHT work in your favor....

Actually I would say that is the one most likely to work against @gtslow. The LEO can say that he was traveling at a steady speed of <Speed Limit> at the time he was passed. Most likely his onboard camera will validate this (they show speed of travel, etc). The fact that he was passed means the other car was speeding. You can then debate the amount by which he was passed but that can actually be calculated off the tape with some pretty simple math (length of car, how long it takes to pass through the camera, you have how much faster "the perps" car was travelling than the cop car).

In the end, my advice is either go in with a lawyer, or pay the ticket. Unless you are experienced at doing this you are going to be found guilty.

[Pete156]

Originally Posted by slyphen

I will consider the lawyer route. but if i have to fight it myself, here are my questions/defense for the officer.

The ticket was clocked at 70mph in a 60 zone on I-5.

1. Is your speedometer up to calibration date, if so, please provide calibration certificate and prove that it is.

2. The officer did not pace me properly, he immediately pulled me over as i passed him and did not maintain constant distance or speed as he caught up to me for a reasonable amount of time (usually at minimum 1/8-1/4 mile, i'll have to look a little more into it for washington).

3. According to title 45 article XX, I am allowed to pass on the right provided the condition is safe and the left lane vehicle is going below reasonable speed.

Did you pass this officer on the right?

[AVOturboworld]

You are certainly within your rights to fight this yourself.

But I certainly don't suggest it. If you add up all the time you'll have to spend to do so, you'll be close to the cost of the traffic lawyer. And you will still have a fairly high chance of failing, thus paying the ticket, taking the point(s), and wasted all that time.

With a traffic lawyer, unless you were doing something atrocious, they will always get you off your first ticket. Either through a deferral, outright dismissal, or reduction to a non-point offense and a minor fine. As hard as it is to swallow, this is going to be the cheapest path overall.

You aren't going in front of Judge Judy, this will be somebody that has a huge amount of people to process through every day, and they all have excuses, most of them the weakest excuses ever. Traffic lawyers already know the judge, know the procedures, and know all the loopholes. And the Judges know that as well, so instead of wasting time on fighting, they'll just defer or go for the minor non-point fine.

[sachu]

lawyer the fuck up. I always do when i get into this sort of trouble than just forking over cash to the man.

http://oberlaw.com/

Talk to Emily.

[slyphen]

Originally Posted by Pete156

Did you pass this officer on the right?

Yes, i did pass him on the right. however according to http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.115

I am allowed to pass on the right provided the road condition is safe. article (2)

[Pete156]

Originally Posted by slyphen

Yes, i did pass him on the right.

You're screwed

[RobertPaulson]

Originally Posted by slyphen

Yes, i did pass him on the right. however according to http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.115

I am allowed to pass on the right provided the road condition is safe. article (2)

speeding while passing on the right does not meet

(2) The driver of a vehicle may overtake and pass another vehicle upon the right only under conditions permitting such movement in safety.

in the eyes of the LEO or judge,

[cdrazic93]

Originally Posted by rixter145

Or set a court date, and give excuses every time to not show. Eventually the paper work piles up and it won't be worth it for them to keep the ticket

THISSS so much this. My old neighbor is a seattle police captain, ofcourse he gave me this exact advice after i had gotten a few speeding tickets, but it will be used very much in the future. He says it works everytime,

[rixter145]

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

THISSS so much this. My old neighbor is a seattle police captain, ofcourse he gave me this exact advice after i had gotten a few speeding tickets, but it will be used very much in the future. He says it works everytime,

And make sure to definitely do it when you get it in Thurston County. I recently got a ticket there and lawyered up. The police fucked up terribly and the judge with the prosecutor unfairly ruled in their favor.
The Prosecutor argued their version of the facts and why they thought my arguments, while valid, shouldn't be fatal to their case.

The few things the cop fucked up in his report would've easily been dismissed in any county. They were:
1) Tuning his speedometer: doesn't say he tested the LEDs: so speed could be inaccurate
2) Moving rule: he has to compare speed on radar gun to speed of speedometer
- Needs a certificate calibrated recently [no records shown in Thurston]
3) Did not sign the affidavit:
- RCW 9A.72.085: Unsworn statements, certification
- Was there, but not dated, signed, and where it was signed
4) Cop said he's received training but did not state he was certified

I ended up paying for the ticket because the appealing process is way too costly and is not worth having an insurance increase in premium even if I won (which is VERY hard at this rate), I wouldn't of gotten any money back from the legal fees.

If they aren't playing fair, why should we? And if anyone says "just don't speed.", I will tell you that I wasn't speeding, the cop was an asshole who was using a radar detector wrongly, with 2 cars behind him, at least 1/2 mile in front of me, rainy weather but saw "hey a nice car, let's make some money" just to pull me over.

Anyways, sorry for the rant and good luck with you!

[slyphen]

I will contest the hearing.

1) once i submit the ticket and get a date of hearing, I will delay the hearing.

2) I will request for Discovery to see what the officer's sworn statements are. I will request Discovery 15 days prior to court day(requirement is 14 days), the prosecutor must provide me with requested documents at least 7 days prior to hearing date. if I dont get it, i will motion for dismiss. (IRLJ 3.1)
also based on what i see here, i might decide to get a lawyer.

3) request the calibration record for the speedometer of the motorcycle the officer rode and verify calibration date. If it is out of calibration, i will motion for dismiss.

4) if all above fail, argue the officer did not pace me properly. he did not maintain a constant speed and distance of sufficient amount of time (less than 1/8-1/4 mile). if he argue other wise, i will ask him for where did he receive his training for pacing as a speed measurement method(which there is no official training)

5) i'm shit out of luck and pay the fee and just fucking hire a lawyer next time. or you know... officer don't show up.

i'll be doing plenty technicality research before the court date, hopefully i'll be ready. thanks for all the input guys. I suppose its about time for me to get pulled over for something...

[slyphen]

Originally Posted by RobertPaulson

speeding while passing on the right does not meet

(2) The driver of a vehicle may overtake and pass another vehicle upon the right only under conditions permitting such movement in safety.

in the eyes of the LEO or judge,

that definition is so broad its almost as big as the moon's orbit. but like you said, its really in the eye of the judge that i care about. i can give 2 shits about the LEO.

[Dvipercop]

All this work... Wouldn't it just be easier to obey the speed limit?