Am I stupid if I don't buy a Civic Si?

[qcbaker]

Originally Posted by motrek

Most people seem to just think the transmission is notchy/stiff when shifting into 2nd when it's cold. Notchy I can deal with. Broken or defective transmission, I would be upset about.

I do feel that the transmission can feel a little stiff when its cold. But it isn't really an issue as long as you shift properly. In my experience (others may have different techniques), revving 1st gear up to around 4K and then easing the clutch out slightly slower works wonders for smoothing out that 1-2 shift, especially when the trans is cold.

[WolfpackS2k]

I guess what I'm saying (and while this is my opinion I think it's a popular one) is that if I replaced my Cayman with one (otherwise identical) PDK equipped and dropped 5 seconds on VIR full course, I wouldn't feel that I accomplished anything as a driver.

[HKz]

Originally Posted by motrek

I know the possibility of more horsepower from the factory has been discussed ad nauseum. But it seems to me at this point that we're never going to see it. They just refreshed the cars last year and didn't add any meaningful amount of horsepower. I imagine that if they did add a turbo in the next few years they'd charge many thousands of dollars extra for it. And I guess the next Supra/Z4 will be coming out in the next couple years and that'll be Toyota's answer re: more horsepower. That's kind of disappointing to me considering there hasn't been a meaningful change since the car first came out in 2012 and many (most?) other cars of all makes/models/types have seen horsepower and torque go up by pretty large percentages...

eh why go down that path if you aren't still worried about the power...they haven't added more power for so many reasons...twins don't need it; it wouldn't win over that many naysayers because muscle cars will still always be more powerful/faster/cheaper; more power = upgraded suspension/wheel/tires/brakes = heavier car = less fun

[motrek]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I guess what I'm saying (and while this is my opinion I think it's a popular one) is that if I replaced my Cayman with one (otherwise identical) PDK equipped and dropped 5 seconds on VIR full course, I wouldn't feel that I accomplished anything as a driver.

Agreed. I don't think we've said anything that contradicts what the other is saying.

[VTEC]

Originally Posted by motrek

And of course you're not going to downshift and then upshift a couple seconds later just to get out of somebody's blind spot.

Why not? This is what makes driving manual so much fun. And with 150 ft-lbs of torque, it's kind of a necessity.

[motrek]

Originally Posted by HKz

eh why go down that path if you aren't still worried about the power...they haven't added more power for so many reasons...twins don't need it; it wouldn't win over that many naysayers because muscle cars will still always be more powerful/faster/cheaper; more power = upgraded suspension/wheel/tires/brakes = heavier car = less fun

All reasons why e.g. a Mazda Miata wouldn't or shouldn't get more horsepower either but it just got bumped by almost 30...

[why?]

I love how people say you don't have to power to be a "stoplight racer." I mean it is seriously funny. Most people accelerate so damn slow I beg them to go faster. I want them all to pass me so I can go 10 below the speed limit and get my 40 mpg, but they just won't.

[Sasquachulator]

I dunno about you guys but all automatics I drove would downshift if I put a heavy foot down...…

so the more I think about it, the more I wonder how downshifting is actually a bad thing...….
the only thing I can think of is that with automatic, you don't actually do anything since the transmission does it for you.


if you're focused on the best track times, you get the best tool that gives you the best times (automatic).
if you're focused on being a better driver, that doesn't matter since you're comparing lap times with yourself and others with a similar configuration as yourself with the occasional different setups that you use to challenge yourself.

[motrek]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

I dunno about you guys but all automatics I drove would downshift if I put a heavy foot down...…

so the more I think about it, the more I wonder how downshifting is actually a bad thing...….
the only thing I can think of is that with automatic, you don't actually do anything since the transmission does it for you.

I don't think anybody ever said that downshifting is a bad thing.

Obviously if you can just press the gas pedal down more to get the amount of acceleration you want without downshifting, that's better.

[qcbaker]

Originally Posted by motrek

All reasons why e.g. a Mazda Miata wouldn't or shouldn't get more horsepower either but it just got bumped by almost 30...

Mazda was able to get those horsepower gains without significantly increasing the weight, though. The new soft top is only 7 pounds heavier than the previous model. If Toyota/Subaru were able to get an additional 30 horses out of this engine and only increase weight by 7 pounds, I'd guess they would too. But I agree with @HKz, I don't think the 86 "needs" more power. Not that I'd say no to it, if they could do it like the Miata without increasing weight much. But I've never had any trouble passing people or getting into a spot in traffic or anything like that.

[motrek]

Originally Posted by qcbaker

Mazda was able to get those horsepower gains without significantly increasing the weight, though. The new soft top is only 7 pounds heavier than the previous model. If Toyota/Subaru were able to get an additional 30 horses out of this engine and only increase weight by 7 pounds, I'd guess they would too. But I agree with @HKz, I don't think the 86 "needs" more power. Not that I'd say no to it, if they could do it like the Miata without increasing weight much. But I've never had any trouble passing people or getting into a spot in traffic or anything like that.

I don't think it needs more power either. But lots of car models are getting basically free power upgrades these days so it's frustrating that the 86/BRZ isn't.

The Civic LX has a 2.0L NA engine and the Civic EX has a 1.5L with a turbo and the weight difference is 107 lbs for 29 extra ft-lbs of torque (presumably much lower in the rev range). I think I'd pay a little extra for that. If somebody prioritizes weight above all else then maybe they wouldn't.

EDIT: The Mini Cooper S weighs 160 lbs more for 45 extra ft-lbs...

[ermax]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I guess what I'm saying (and while this is my opinion I think it's a popular one) is that if I replaced my Cayman with one (otherwise identical) PDK equipped and dropped 5 seconds on VIR full course, I wouldn't feel that I accomplished anything as a driver.

Exactly! People feel reward when they, the driver were the cause of the improvement.

[qcbaker]

Originally Posted by motrek

I don't think it needs more power either. But lots of car models are getting basically free power upgrades these days so it's frustrating that the 86/BRZ isn't.

If you don't think it needs more power, why would you be frustrated with it not getting more power, regardless of what happens to other car models? Just doesn't really strike me as something to worry about at all, since I'm already satisfied with the car as is.

The Civic Sport has a 2.0L NA engine and the Civic EX has a 1.5L with a turbo and the weight difference is 107 lbs for 29 extra ft-lbs of torque (presumably much lower in the rev range). I think I'd pay a little extra for that. If somebody prioritizes weight above all else then maybe they wouldn't.

107 lbs is quite a bit more than the 7 lbs that the Miata put on. The 86 is indeed a car that prioritizes being lightweight over having more power, so I don't think they would add that much weight to the car, even if it added a bit more power.

[motrek]

Originally Posted by qcbaker

If you don't think it needs more power, why would you be frustrated with it not getting more power, regardless of what happens to other car models? Just doesn't really strike me as something to worry about at all, since I'm already satisfied with the car as is. ...

There's a difference between needing something and wanting something, or at least not minding if you were given something that everybody else is getting.

The 86/BRZ doesn't even need the amount of power that it currently has. Could make do with less.