In-Person vs Remote Dyno Tuning

[Mike_ZN6]

If you go to a competent in-person dyno tuner, will you always get better HP/TQ numbers than a custom remote tune?

The popular remote tuners here claim to have the best tunes for specific headers (ACE 350, JDL 4-2-1) with lots of time put into the tune for each different header. Would one of their tunes for the specific headers perform better than what a local tuner could do?

I am preparing to install a JDL 4-2-1 header/over-pipe and get the car tuned. I originally planned to get a remote tune for the car because the shops selling the remote tunes are supposedly the best tuners for this platform. This is proving to be more complicated and expensive than originally thought to get done the way I want (before vs after dyno graphs).

To go the remote tuning route, I first need to pay a shop to let me do some baseline dyno pulls. Then buy the EcuTek cable/license/tune and work through several revisions with the remote tuner. Then finally, go back to the shop and pay for some more dyno time to get the final numbers. This would mean at least 2 days off work and who knows how much time logging/revisioning.

I could instead go to a recommended local tuner. They could do the tune, provide before vs after dyno graphs, and have everything completed in a single day. Because I would not have to buy the EcuTek cable or pay for the extra dyno sessions, going to the local tuner would end up being considerably cheaper.

Could the remote tune possibly be so much better that the additional expense and hassle are worth it? Either way, would the tunes end up so close that there is no practical difference?

[Ashikabi]

You don't have to go to a Dyno at all with remote tuning. You just won't know what hp you're making. Also, if you just want strapped on the Dyno for a couple pulls with no tuning, that only takes a few minutes so it should be pretty cheap and quick. No need to take a full day off work for that.

PTuning is a pretty big name so I expect they could do a pretty good job. If it was a "no-name" shop, then the likelihood that they actually tune it wrong would be increased where as CSG is very good at tuning the 86. Cost of the dongle itself is only like 120$used so not a terrible cost investment.

Dyno tuning is usually about 500$+. I don't know what CSG remote tuning costs. Either way you'll get a good result I think

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[RenegadeWRX]

I wish I would have got a baseline dyno done at PTuning before I went and got an ECUTEK and E-tune from Delicious Tuning. Although I'm sure PTuning has base line dyno logs from their dyno and could provide that already with a dyno of my current setup then vs a tune from PTuning when I get the time and funds to do so. From my experience E-tuning is just as good as dyno tuning if not almost equal to dyno tuning. The tuner is where the difference lies and then we're talking almost minimal difference depending on the tuners abilities and how long they have been tuning and how well they know the platform they are tuning.

I don't have experience with CSG but I've heard good things about them. I've also heard that PTuning is also a great tuner of our platform.

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[Mike_ZN6]

Originally Posted by Ashikabi

You don't have to go to a Dyno at all with remote tuning. You just won't know what hp you're making. Also, if you just want strapped on the Dyno for a couple pulls with no tuning, that only takes a few minutes so it should be pretty cheap and quick. No need to take a full day off work for that.

I know you don't technically have to get dynos when doing remote tuning, I just personally want to do it that way so I know the actual difference I made. The shops around here charge by the hour (~$250), plus they are all over an hour away.

Originally Posted by Ashikabi

Cost of the dongle itself is only like 120$used so not a terrible cost investment.

Yeah, I could probably save a bit by buying the EcuTek dongle used. You are not saving that much because you still have to buy the license. It would still be a lot more work to go remote and I am not sure it would be worth it.

[Ashikabi]

Originally Posted by Mike_ZN6

I know you don't technically have to get dynos when doing remote tuning, I just personally want to do it that way so I know the actual difference I made. The shops around here charge by the hour (~$250), plus they are all over an hour away.




Yeah, I could probably save a bit by buying the EcuTek dongle used. You are not saving that much because you still have to buy the license. It would still be a lot more work to go remote and I am not sure it would be worth it.

You have to buy the license regardless

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[RenegadeWRX]

Originally Posted by Mike_ZN6

I know you don't technically have to get dynos when doing remote tuning, I just personally want to do it that way so I know the actual difference I made. The shops around here charge by the hour (~$250), plus they are all over an hour away.




Yeah, I could probably save a bit by buying the EcuTek dongle used. You are not saving that much because you still have to buy the license. It would still be a lot more work to go remote and I am not sure it would be worth it.

PTuning charges $150 for their 3 power pulls no tuning.

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[TommyW]

I had Zach do mine on a dyno and I'm guessing that is the most efficient way. After the dyno he got in the right seat with his computer and had me do some hard pulls to further dial things in. I'm thinking that you don't need a dyno first as you just do pulls with the unit plugged in then email to your remote tuner. There would most likely be a few go rounds of this to get things dialed in however it's probably close enough to not make much of a difference.

[Goingnowherefast]

Originally Posted by Ashikabi

You don't have to go to a Dyno at all with remote tuning.

That's not entirely true. A load bearing dyno with torque readout is crucial to a good tune for a multitude of reasons.

1. On the street, you are unable to reliably access some areas of the map (usually at high load low rpm) - this is important since you could leave areas of the map untouched. You might never touch these areas of the map until you or the customer is (for instance) on track going uphill in a gear you don't normally use.

2. You need a torque readout to tune ignition timing, VVT, and to a lesser extent fuel. With ignition timing, it is effectively impossible to know whether you are before or past MBT (maximum brake torque) for a give ignition timing without a dyno. Take a look at the graph below that shows the relationship between ignition timing and torque production.



Looking at that chart, you can see that there's a timing value past MBT and a timing value before MBT that produce the same torque. This is why, tuning ignition on the street only looking at knock isn't the most optimal of doing things. You could be on the far side of the curve, with more timing than you need. Tuning like that produces a less safe tune as the more ignition timing you have, the more prone you are to knock and eventually detonation.

Tuners like Delicious and CSG have done enough of these cars that they probably have a good idea of how to get "close" to optimal without a dyno. But there is simply no replacement for the real thing. My opinion? If you aren't racing competitively then you'll be fine with one of their e-tunes with a couple street revisions.