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Old 12-19-2021, 11:27 AM   #2101
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I'm sure everybody is picky about big pharma but ignoring what Lays puts into their potato chips or whatever.
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Old 12-19-2021, 11:57 AM   #2102
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Why whine about a needle or three when over 700,000 Americans are dead from the virus? Are you a Karen in other aspects of your life?
let's put this into perspective than.

700k deaths over what time span?
how many deaths in that same period for car wrecks, smoking, or OSHA violations? i bet any one of those things is higher.

we can't stop people from dying. but it sure would be nice to better choose who does...

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Hey @TommyW your Dr. called, you are overdue for your Tetanus shot.
i just lick rusty nails every couple months. been working great. way cheaper too!

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Americans live, Canadians cower
lol, i just had to come to a complete stop at an intersection so a camry could turn the corner at 2mph. i would say that's entirely wrong. most american's cower at even the slightest change.

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I'm sure everybody is picky about big pharma but ignoring what Lays puts into their potato chips or whatever.
but, but, they told me it's all natural!!
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Old 12-19-2021, 12:59 PM   #2103
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i just lick rusty nails every couple months. been working great. way cheaper too!!
Well, OK, sounds less pleasant than a booster and not sure that will help you with Diphtheria (which is also part of the "Tetanus" shot, didn't realize that until I looked up the booster frequency)
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Old 12-19-2021, 01:49 PM   #2104
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Originally Posted by soundman98 View Post
let's put this into perspective than.

700k deaths over what time span?
how many deaths in that same period for car wrecks, smoking, or OSHA violations? i bet any one of those things is higher.

we can't stop people from dying. but it sure would be nice to better choose who does...


i just lick rusty nails every couple months. been working great. way cheaper too!


lol, i just had to come to a complete stop at an intersection so a camry could turn the corner at 2mph. i would say that's entirely wrong. most american's cower at even the slightest change.



but, but, they told me it's all natural!!

FYI - Nationwide numbers


Auto deaths
2020 37,000 IIHS https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality...state-by-state

work related deaths OSHA - https://www.osha.gov/data/commonstats
2019 5333

accidental drownings
annual - 4000 (mas o menos) CDC https://www.cdc.gov/drowning/data/index.html

firearms "accidents"
avg 500 (mas o menos) The Brady Organization - https://www.bradyunited.org/key-statistics


=approximately 48000 per year

times 2 years (so far)

= 96,000

= 132 per day
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Covid

To date in USA - 804,756
current daily avg - 1300

Not only are none of them higher, combined they are not even close.

Covid is a bigger killer, by a FACTOR of 10.

Only tobacco is close. At 480,000/year it is neck and neck. (CDC - https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_sta...acts/index.htm)

The thing with tobacco is it's generally self inflicted. So we can think of those deaths as suicides (or not) . Of that 480,000 "only" 41,000 are from second hand smoke, which I argue is more analogous to death from Covid (except in the case of the deliberately unvaxed, that's more like actively smoking.)

Covid really is some sick shit.
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Last edited by Capt Spaulding; 12-19-2021 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 12-19-2021, 02:01 PM   #2105
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Originally Posted by Capt Spaulding View Post
FYI - Nationwide numbers


Auto deaths
2020 37,000

work related deaths
2019 5333

accidental drownings
annual - 4000 (mas o menos)

firearms "accidents"
avg 500 (mas o menos)


=approximately 48000 per year

times 2 years (so far)

= 96,000

= 132 per day
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Covid

To date in USA - 804,756
current daily avg - 1300

Not only are none of them higher, combined they are not even close.

Covid is a bigger killer, by a FACTOR of 10.

Only tobacco is close. At 480,000/year it is neck and neck.

The thing with tobacco is it's generally self inflicted. So we can think of those deaths as suicides (or not) . Of that 480,000 "only" 41,000 are from second hand smoke, which I argue is more analogous to death from Covid.
While I have no reason to believe these numbers are inaccurate, I think they might carry more weight if you presented the sources for them?
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Old 12-19-2021, 02:22 PM   #2106
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While I have no reason to believe these numbers are inaccurate, I think they might carry more weight if you presented the sources for them?
Ask, and ye shall receive. ^^^^^^
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Old 12-19-2021, 02:24 PM   #2107
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i see, i thought 700k indicated total deaths since the beginning.

fair disclosure: i'm not an "every life is precious" kinda person. i believe that it's up to us as individuals to reduce and minimize danger to ourselves. if people, myself included, choose to not take the precautions to minimize harm to themselves, that ought to be on them.

everyone's had plenty of time to minimize their exposure. many have chosen to ignore that advice. that is their right.

this thanksgiving, my relatives hosted. all of the invited relatives have been vaccinated, but the hosting family hasn't for #reasons. they all came down with covid afterwards, though we're not exactly sure where/how. he was fine, just a positive test, she ended up in the hospital for a while, though is doing better now.

my mom was a little frustrated with me when i just shrugged at the news. i had to re-explain, they are old enough to make a conscious decision in the matter, and made that choice. the consequences of the choice are well-known, and they decided that the symptoms of the virus were lesser than the potential symptoms that could be caused by the vaccine.

i don't need to feel sorry for that. i don't need to give my sympathy on the matter. an adult made an adult decision that specifically affected themselves. if anything, it's one of the best-case scenario's for an argument for "free will". "live by the sword, die by the sword" kind of thing. their decision had great potential to effect everyone at that thanksgiving get together, but it affected only themselves.

every day, we all have opportunities to die by our own choices. that is free will. it's when it affects others and we deny their free will for our own that is really what this whole vaccinations thing is really about. and that is really what all this debate boils down to. if you want to take risks yourself, i'm all for it. but stay away from others so you don't take the risks for others.
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Old 12-19-2021, 03:19 PM   #2108
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@soundman98.

A couple of things. I'm a little puzzled by the first sentence. "[S]ince the beginning..." of what? The Pandemic? I'm pretty sure the 804k number is just that. It just dwarfs other "unintentional" sources of mortality.

I generally agree with the rest of your points. My problem (like, I think yours) is the impact we have on other people. The smoking analogy may be apt. Do I have a right to smoke as I please around other people, knowing that second hand smoke kills 41,000 people a year? I would argue no, I don't. If I want to kill myself, that's my affair. There are, to be sure, other externalities stemming from my habit, but setting those up requires restaurant napkins and straws.

Vaccine decisions are similar. The big difference is the causes of death from smoking are known and, more or less, fixed. By smoking I am not going to assist in creating a new, mutated form of death by smoking which I can pass on to non-smokers.

That is precisely what the unvaxed can. I've ranted since the beginning that this is a long haul, uphill fight. The virus's ability to mutate into new forms makes it a phantom enemy. If I go unvaxxed I'm allowing the virus to use me as a petri dish to incubate new forms that may be able to leap the vaccine barrier. That's on me. The rest of society really should ostracize me.

Again, I'm thinking Devils Island. Don't want to be part of society? - there you go.
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Old 12-19-2021, 03:36 PM   #2109
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@soundman98.

A couple of things. I'm a little puzzled by the first sentence. "[S]ince the beginning..." of what? The Pandemic? I'm pretty sure the 804k number is just that. It just dwarfs other "unintentional" sources of mortality.
it was confusion on my part.

i thought the covid count was cumulative from 2020-present, while other counts were annual only.
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Old 12-19-2021, 04:52 PM   #2110
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it was confusion on my part.

i thought the covid count was cumulative from 2020-present, while other counts were annual only.
Yeah, the covid count is a total. For all intents and purposes it begins in January of 2020. Since we're effectively looking at a 2 year Covid toll, I multiplied the "other causes" total by 2 to make them comparable.
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Old 12-20-2021, 02:46 AM   #2111
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What does rusty nails have to do with tetanus?
Back in the day, on the farm, if you were barefoot and stepped on a rusty nail, you should have gotten a tetanus shot.

If the nail wasn't rusty, no problem, unless the nail was covered with pig shit.

My grandfather would just flush out the punctures on my younger brother's foot after he stabbed himself with a nail, with the stuff in the purple bottle plus a swabbing with iodine. However, if his jaw were to lock up, THEN we would have to take him to the vet.
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Old 12-20-2021, 03:08 AM   #2112
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Old 12-20-2021, 05:54 AM   #2113
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Old 12-20-2021, 10:27 AM   #2114
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While I have no reason to believe these numbers are inaccurate, I think they might carry more weight if you presented the sources for them?
AFAIK the Covid numbers are with Covid and not from Covid. You have a lot of people die from another cause that tested positive that were asymptomatic . Also having to consider the financial benefits of the hospitals for treating Covid patients. I just donít think we have an accurate study either way. Bottom line is yes people die from it how many will depend on the study you cite.
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