Pedders Top Hats - Add camber without sacrificing wheel clearance

[timurrrr]

To a future reader who's just starting to explore non-OEM alignment for these cars: -2.3º camber in is not a lot.
It's certainly better than zero, and might be just enough for the street,
but if you care about camber (HPDE, AutoX, etc.) you might want to target 3º or even more camber.

As another data point, with SPC camber bolts alone (SPC 81305, available on Amazon) I got ~1.75º camber in the front.
Combined with "about a full degree of camber" from these top hats, looks like we're getting into the ~2.75º territory.
As correctly mentioned in the first post, you probably won't be able to effectively use camber bolts with wheels like 17x9 +40 though.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Just FYI, going back to back with stock top mounts on the same exact suspension set up...0 change in ride height (as expected, but just wanted to be super sure). Also I feel like the stock mounts are a tiny tiny bit more compliant but it's not that noticeable. The added camber and caster are very noticeable and the stock alignment is no fun.

Originally Posted by timurrrr

To a future reader who's just starting to explore non-OEM alignment for these cars: -2.3º camber in is not a lot.
It's certainly better than zero, and might be just enough for the street,
but if you care about camber (HPDE, AutoX, etc.) you might want to target 3º or even more camber.

As another data point, with SPC camber bolts alone (SPC 81305, available on Amazon) I got ~1.75º camber in the front.
Combined with "about a full degree of camber" from these top hats, looks like we're getting into the ~2.75º territory.
As correctly mentioned in the first post, you probably won't be able to effectively use camber bolts with wheels like 17x9 +40 though.

Yeah I'd say -2.3 degrees is plenty for the street and great for backroads fun and "light" autox or track use...meaning you're out to have fun but making some compromises because you're also daily driving the car. You'd want more camber for the real sticky tires and/or to be faster.

I think that's the real target for these tops...for more dedicated track use you'll want adjustable camber plates. You could get just over -3 degrees with these on RCE Tarmac 2s or KWs with the OEM 14mm upper bolt though.

- Andrew

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Also I feel like the stock mounts are a tiny tiny bit more compliant but it's not that noticeable.

Thanks, Andrew. I was going to ask about that. All other things equal, moving the bearing off center in the isolator, I was wondering how much more of the high frequency stuff would get through.

[Anthonyc777]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Thanks, Andrew. I was going to ask about that. All other things equal, moving the bearing off center in the isolator, I was wondering how much more of the high frequency stuff would get through.

The other factor could be these top hats used with a true coilover vs a oem shock/spring combo. Shouldnt be too different, but at least on my oem shock/spring combo there was very little difference between OEM top hat and these, as I mentioned in my OP I almost feel the suspension is more compliant with the new top hats, but its very hard to tell.

The other way to look at these is the price per performance aspect. Camber bolts win here if all you care about is camber, but camber + caster these come in at half the cost of the cheapest adjustable top hats, and around 1/4 cheaper then the higher end top hats. For those drivers that just like to get a modest upgrade maybe for a spirited daily or light auto x / track (as RCE mentioned) that arent trying to max their camber out and have full adjustability, for the price these are a solid upgrade imo.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by Anthonyc777

For those drivers that just like to get a modest upgrade maybe for a spirited daily or light auto x / track (as RCE mentioned) that arent trying to max their camber out and have full adjustability, for the price these are a solid upgrade imo.

100%. I'd totally get these if I was building a street-only car and didn't already have coilovers.

Just wanted to give a reference point for people who actually do plan to do AutoX/track that these hats, even with camber bolts, might not be enough.

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

I think that's the real target for these tops...for more dedicated track use you'll want adjustable camber plates. You could get just over -3 degrees with these on RCE Tarmac 2s or KWs with the OEM 14mm upper bolt though.

That's a great data point!

[jflogerzi]

Here are my alignment specs. I plan to use these for a season and as I get better as a driver some T2's, KWv3, similar quality coils are in my future.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Anthonyc777

The other way to look at these is the price per performance aspect. Camber bolts win here if all you care about is camber, but camber + caster these come in at half the cost of the cheapest adjustable top hats, and around 1/4 cheaper then the higher end top hats. For those drivers that just like to get a modest upgrade maybe for a spirited daily or light auto x / track (as RCE mentioned) that arent trying to max their camber out and have full adjustability, for the price these are a solid upgrade imo.

Exactly my goal. I'm hoping to address the steady-state understeer with the smallest scalpel I can possibly use. I have a second set of stock dampers I will slot for the rest. My alignment guy is not a fan of camber bolts so I'm hoping to win some extra goodwill by following his advice.

[RToyo86]

I looked into getting a set of these as they're backordered.
I sent pedders an email and got a response today that their shipment won't be in til the end of May.

[dasting]

Originally Posted by RToyo86

I looked into getting a set of these as they're backordered.
I sent pedders an email and got a response today that their shipment is 70 days out. Looks like I won't be able to order them til June/July if I want to wait to install my B6s.

I bought these three weeks ago. I got one through FT86 speed, it arrived and i realized it wasn't sold as a set and was able to grab one more from ebay just as everyone started listing as back ordered.

I haven't thrown them on yet. With the eibach pro-kit lowering springs, bottom strut bolt to top bolt, and SPC 14mm new bottom bolt, I was able to get to -2.4* camber. I am hoping this puts me at -3* or more, I'll report back once I get them in.

My car is 99% DD but I do take it to the track and autocross from time to time. There is no question with RS4s I am currently under-cambered. I don't have the need to go full adjustability and coils and spend $2500 on decent stuff. My goal was to do a mild, budget build to see what the car could do. At NJMP Lighting, I was running high 1:17s, about on par with spec miata front runner lap times, so I'm pretty happy with that. Since then I've added a header, tune, and will be bolting these on, and hoping to find some more time. I think over adjustability is an unneeded and not-well-understood issue for many people, and I liked that these keep NVH at bay too. I'll report back in May when I get back on track.

[Anthonyc777]

Originally Posted by RToyo86

I looked into getting a set of these as they're backordered.
I sent pedders an email and got a response today that their shipment is 70 days out. Looks like I won't be able to order them til June/July if I want to wait to install my B6s.

Try ebay sellers, I emailed ftspeed, pedders and an ebay seller. Surprisingly the ebay seller said their supplier had some in stock and I was able to get them despite the backorder.

[Anthonyc777]

Originally Posted by dasting

I think over adjustability is an unneeded and not-well-understood issue for many people, and I liked that these keep NVH at bay too. I'll report back in May when I get back on track.

I have the same sentiment, i've had fully adjustable stuff in the past and I end up never touching it anyway or becomes more of a burden having to worry about setting it up and adjusting it. Some might like to always be tweaking their set ups and optimizing, for me the ease of not having to touch or worry about it is nice as well.

its become a big marketing push with coilovers as well having "32 adjustments" when in reality there's only like 5-10 clicks that actually do something.

[RToyo86]

Originally Posted by Anthonyc777

Try ebay sellers, I emailed ftspeed, pedders and an ebay seller. Surprisingly the ebay seller said their supplier had some in stock and I was able to get them despite the backorder.

Thanks for the tip. Just checked and there was only one left via eBay.
$130 shipped per. Damn you CAD.

[dasting]

Originally Posted by Anthonyc777

I have the same sentiment, i've had fully adjustable stuff in the past and I end up never touching it anyway or becomes more of a burden having to worry about setting it up and adjusting it. Some might like to always be tweaking their set ups and optimizing, for me the ease of not having to touch or worry about it is nice as well.

its become a big marketing push with coilovers as well having "32 adjustments" when in reality there's only like 5-10 clicks that actually do something.

Agreed, all that "32 WAY ADJUSTABLE!!!" is just marketing bs. Don't get me wrong, full adjustability in height, rebound and compression has its place, and for those looking for tenths and know what adjustments to make, it's worth it. For street, it's not needed (caveat - high end dampers that have true soft and hard settings).





Anyway, threw these in today. Super easy install, took about 30 minutes all in. And they got me basically exactly as advertised - I went from -2.4* to -3.2*. With my allseasons on and an easy drive to home cheapot, there wasn't a huge difference in feel, but should get me where I need to be on track.

[billstock67]

Installed Pedders, along with B6 & Yellow springs. Front camber is L -1.34°, R -1.78°, without crash or camber bolts. Preloaded everything to maximum camber direction before tightening, to take advantage of normal clearances.