follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Engine, Exhaust, Transmission

Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-16-2021, 03:53 PM   #15
norcalpb
Senior Member
 
norcalpb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Drives: '13 DGM BRZ Limted
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 1,926
Thanks: 875
Thanked 633 Times in 446 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmondChassis View Post
The Brand is Weir Performance.
The differential was rebuilded with new Pinion Bearings, Carrier Bearings, Pinion Seal, Shims/Spacers and Washers.

I spoke to Spence Weir from Weir Performance. His a great guy and one of the best customer service I have ever recieved. He told me the issue is caused by 1) incorrect pinion depth 2) No pinion bearing preload (loose pinion) 3) No carrier bearing preload (loose carrier)


I'll be getting the differential stripped to inspect all those things and making sure it's all up to spec.
A side note, but Spence is the man. I've never bought anything from him but I did call him one time to talk about a diff noise I was hearing and it was one of the most informative conversations I have ever had about our drivetrains. I would trust his products 100%, and I'm curious to hear what your installer has to say once you 2 meet in person.
norcalpb is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to norcalpb For This Useful Post:
why? (02-25-2021)
Old 02-25-2021, 01:12 AM   #16
AlmondChassis
Member
 
AlmondChassis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Drives: Subaru BRZ MY16
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 22
Thanks: 4
Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by norcalpb View Post
A side note, but Spence is the man. I've never bought anything from him but I did call him one time to talk about a diff noise I was hearing and it was one of the most informative conversations I have ever had about our drivetrains. I would trust his products 100%, and I'm curious to hear what your installer has to say once you 2 meet in person.
I told one of my friends about the issue, he has a drag car and guided me to a differential mechanic who also build diffs for the Australian Army 4x4/Tanks and have over 40 years of experience. It came down to either, the Gear Set was used without any oil or the gear set is defective, also using soft metal as it already went through the hardening of the metal and has to be scrapped.
AlmondChassis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 01:14 AM   #17
AlmondChassis
Member
 
AlmondChassis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Drives: Subaru BRZ MY16
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 22
Thanks: 4
Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxisPower View Post
I've setup a couple of these diffs but my experience is only with oem Toyota gearsets so I can't speak about weir or mfactory. When it comes to the Toyota gears I've found that the pinion shim that came with original gears almost always gives the best pattern even with the new gears. Unfortunately, unlike with some domestic differentials that have tools you can use to actually measure your pinion depth, theres nothing like that for these diffs and nothing called out in the service manual except to set to a specific backlash and check the pattern. There's also a couple of other things that need to be checked such as pinion bearing preload, side bearing preload, backlash in multiple locations of the gear, and overall runout. Your pattern doesn't look horrible but could possibly be better with a thinner pinion shim. The other big question is did you install stiffer differential bushings/inserts when you reinstalled everything. Also for future reference, this page provides all the part numbers necessary for installing oem toyota gearsets ranging from 3.58 all the way up to 5.125 incase anyone else will ever need this info. http://www.a-t-s.co.jp/19new_item/in...owfinallsd.php
Do you know the part number of a genuine Toyota 4.88 Ring and Pinion set that will fit in the BRZ? I was looking at Nitro Gears website which they have 4.88 set that are made in the same facility as Toyota. Unfortunately they don't ship to Australia.
AlmondChassis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 06:28 AM   #18
x808drifter
LMGTFY
 
x808drifter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Drives: 13 FRS, 91 Miata
Location: Lava Town, HI
Posts: 1,962
Thanks: 2,307
Thanked 2,501 Times in 1,109 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmondChassis View Post
I told one of my friends about the issue, he has a drag car and guided me to a differential mechanic who also build diffs for the Australian Army 4x4/Tanks and have over 40 years of experience. It came down to either, the Gear Set was used without any oil or the gear set is defective, also using soft metal as it already went through the hardening of the metal and has to be scrapped.
Funny how every person I know that works on diffs pointed to no oil, and improper shimming.
When asked about faulty gear set they all said it was highly unlikely.
x808drifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 01:03 PM   #19
AxisPower
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Drives: 16 GT4, 13 FRS
Location: Western NY
Posts: 83
Thanks: 0
Thanked 17 Times in 9 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmondChassis View Post
Do you know the part number of a genuine Toyota 4.88 Ring and Pinion set that will fit in the BRZ? I was looking at Nitro Gears website which they have 4.88 set that are made in the same facility as Toyota. Unfortunately they don't ship to Australia.
41201-80183 is the part number for just the gear set but unlike the 4.3 and 4.55, if you want to run the 4.875 or 5.125 you need to use a different pinion flange as well as a ring gear spacer for the differential. There are some lsd's like ats or cusco rs that are made specifically for the 4.875 and 5.125 that dont require this spacer but if using the oem diff you will need one. https://www.rhdjapan.com/auto-factor...8-zn6-zc6.html Autofactory sells a kit with the oem gear set that has everything needed (except pinion/side shims).
AxisPower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 06:31 PM   #20
AlmondChassis
Member
 
AlmondChassis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Drives: Subaru BRZ MY16
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 22
Thanks: 4
Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxisPower View Post
41201-80183 is the part number for just the gear set but unlike the 4.3 and 4.55, if you want to run the 4.875 or 5.125 you need to use a different pinion flange as well as a ring gear spacer for the differential. There are some lsd's like ats or cusco rs that are made specifically for the 4.875 and 5.125 that dont require this spacer but if using the oem diff you will need one. https://www.rhdjapan.com/auto-factor...8-zn6-zc6.html Autofactory sells a kit with the oem gear set that has everything needed (except pinion/side shims).
Yeah I found the AutoFactory last night. I am leaning to purchasing that one if the shipping isnt too much. Its more pricey than Weirs but it is an OEM gear set which should be much better and easier to install. Thanks for the recommendations!
AlmondChassis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 08:06 PM   #21
86TOYO2k17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: 2017 toyota 86
Location: PNW
Posts: 2,102
Thanks: 333
Thanked 1,166 Times in 768 Posts
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmondChassis View Post
Yeah I found the AutoFactory last night. I am leaning to purchasing that one if the shipping isnt too much. Its more pricey than Weirs but it is an OEM gear set which should be much better and easier to install. Thanks for the recommendations!
I got the AF 4.5 3years ago from rhd was $650 shipped, arrived surprisingly quick too. Easy install, zero noise. No different than OEM besides ratio change obviously.
86TOYO2k17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 08:55 PM   #22
AlmondChassis
Member
 
AlmondChassis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Drives: Subaru BRZ MY16
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 22
Thanks: 4
Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17 View Post
I got the AF 4.5 3years ago from rhd was $650 shipped, arrived surprisingly quick too. Easy install, zero noise. No different than OEM besides ratio change obviously.
Do you know if the 4.8 on AF is 4.80 or the 4.875? I was thinking I might try the 5.1. The 20 miles I drove the 4.875 was really good, I dont think itll be a dramatic change going to 5.1
AlmondChassis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 09:03 PM   #23
86TOYO2k17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: 2017 toyota 86
Location: PNW
Posts: 2,102
Thanks: 333
Thanked 1,166 Times in 768 Posts
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmondChassis View Post
Do you know if the 4.8 on AF is 4.80 or the 4.875? I was thinking I might try the 5.1. The 20 miles I drove the 4.875 was really good, I dont think itll be a dramatic change going to 5.1
The AF says 4.5 but i think it was 4.56, but hard to tell as the difference is so minimal. Based on FD ratio speed calculators i think it was really the 4.56. So it’s possible the 4.8 is a 4.88 since I believe 4.56 and 4.88 are oem ratios.

There is no free lunch with a FD swap. The difference in acceleration from a roll is not what a lot of people think.

Do you have a specific use for the car or reason for the swap, specifically 4.88 or now 5.1?

With the 4.88 did you go WOT 1-5th? really a specific break in protocol that doesn’t involve any WOT for 200miles so i hope not.
86TOYO2k17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 10:13 PM   #24
AlmondChassis
Member
 
AlmondChassis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Drives: Subaru BRZ MY16
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 22
Thanks: 4
Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17 View Post
The AF says 4.5 but i think it was 4.56, but hard to tell as the difference is so minimal. Based on FD ratio speed calculators i think it was really the 4.56. So it’s possible the 4.8 is a 4.88 since I believe 4.56 and 4.88 are oem ratios.

There is no free lunch with a FD swap. The difference in acceleration from a roll is not what a lot of people think.

Do you have a specific use for the car or reason for the swap, specifically 4.88 or now 5.1?

With the 4.88 did you go WOT 1-5th? really a specific break in protocol that doesn’t involve any WOT for 200miles so i hope not.
No I have not gone WOT at all I babied the car, I just notice the big difference on partial throttle nothing crazy with driving. The car is automatic unfortunately for reasons. So I wanted a more aggressive ratio it makes a huge difference. I'm also interested in track and that should help if I ever decide to get into it. I'll see if the 4.8 is indeed 4.875, if it is I wont bother 5.1, I just didnt want to drop from 4.88 to 4.80
AlmondChassis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 10:32 PM   #25
86TOYO2k17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: 2017 toyota 86
Location: PNW
Posts: 2,102
Thanks: 333
Thanked 1,166 Times in 768 Posts
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmondChassis View Post
No I have not gone WOT at all I babied the car, I just notice the big difference on partial throttle nothing crazy with driving. The car is automatic unfortunately for reasons. So I wanted a more aggressive ratio it makes a huge difference. I'm also interested in track and that should help if I ever decide to get into it. I'll see if the 4.8 is indeed 4.875, if it is I wont bother 5.1, I just didnt want to drop from 4.88 to 4.80
I’m also auto and i wouldn’t want anything more aggressive than the 4.56, auto fall flat on their face in 5th so we only get 1-4 to play with. 4th will top out at 105 with a 5.1, 109 with a 4.88, 117 with a 4.56. I had a slightly larger 24.9” tire and raised redline 100rpm to be able to hit 120 in 4th, was perfect for 0-120, 20,40,60-120s, FWY pulls with a 4.88 or especially 5.1 would be horrible as you’d either shift to 4th after like 1second or just start in 4th and everything will pull on you.

It’s highly dependent on what you want, how you drive, what you’re doing it for etc... from a dig a numerically higher FD ratio is faster, from a roll it can be slower in just as many situations as it will be faster depending on the ratio and what speed you are starting at. This also is a big factor on the track as corner exit speed and/or top straight speed may be lined up exactly to what FD you chose or exactly opposite to your FD and you end up being slower as you choose the FD to match the track / situation.


For a general DD / fun hwy puller I liked being able to hit 120, and be at optimal rpm / gear for starting a pull from 20 40 and 60 as those are typical roll speeds or daily situation speeds, or corner exit speeds to start from and the 4.56 is the most optimal/fastest for that with the 24.9” tire and 100rpm higher redline. With stock size tire and stock redline a 4.44 would be better In that situation.
86TOYO2k17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 11:12 PM   #26
AlmondChassis
Member
 
AlmondChassis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Drives: Subaru BRZ MY16
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 22
Thanks: 4
Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17 View Post
I’m also auto and i wouldn’t want anything more aggressive than the 4.56, auto fall flat on their face in 5th so we only get 1-4 to play with. 4th will top out at 105 with a 5.1, 109 with a 4.88, 117 with a 4.56. I had a slightly larger 24.9” tire and raised redline 100rpm to be able to hit 120 in 4th, was perfect for 0-120, 20,40,60-120s, FWY pulls with a 4.88 or especially 5.1 would be horrible as you’d either shift to 4th after like 1second or just start in 4th and everything will pull on you.

It’s highly dependent on what you want, how you drive, what you’re doing it for etc... from a dig a numerically higher FD ratio is faster, from a roll it can be slower in just as many situations as it will be faster depending on the ratio and what speed you are starting at. This also is a big factor on the track as corner exit speed and/or top straight speed may be lined up exactly to what FD you chose or exactly opposite to your FD and you end up being slower as you choose the FD to match the track / situation.


For a general DD / fun hwy puller I liked being able to hit 120, and be at optimal rpm / gear for starting a pull from 20 40 and 60 as those are typical roll speeds or daily situation speeds, or corner exit speeds to start from and the 4.56 is the most optimal/fastest for that with the 24.9” tire and 100rpm higher redline. With stock size tire and stock redline a 4.44 would be better In that situation.
Thank you for the explanation and your experience with 4.56! I'm on 18” Wheels with 245/45/18 tyres Michellin ps4. (The tyres in this size was pretty cheap. I know 245 is overkill for the car unless FI) If its 4.88 then I'll get that. Here in Australia max speed limit is 68mph (110km and its not often that it's that speed limit where I live) And I live urban so its more about digs and getting to 60 here. The stock auto ratio is just too long for city driving and going from a light. I kinda wish we had the speed limits in America would be nice
AlmondChassis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2021, 11:34 PM   #27
86TOYO2k17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: 2017 toyota 86
Location: PNW
Posts: 2,102
Thanks: 333
Thanked 1,166 Times in 768 Posts
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmondChassis View Post
Thank you for the explanation and your experience with 4.56! I'm on 18” Wheels with 245/45/18 tyres Michellin ps4. (The tyres in this size was pretty cheap. I know 245 is overkill for the car unless FI) If its 4.88 then I'll get that. Here in Australia max speed limit is 68mph (110km and its not often that it's that speed limit where I live) And I live urban so its more about digs and getting to 60 here. The stock auto ratio is just too long for city driving and going from a light. I kinda wish we had the speed limits in America would be nice
A 245/45/18? Thats a massive difference vs stock. Stock is 24.6” thats 26.7” , if that’s your actual size tire then a 4.88 would be almost identical to my old 24.9” tire with 4.56 fd setup. So going that aggressive makes more sense.

Speed limit here is 60mph on freeway. 45-55 on hwy usually.

My NA setup on 92 octane ran a verified dragy 0-60 in 6.6 or 6.4 1ft roll out. fastest I’ve seen an NA auto run especially not on E85.

4.8 / 4.6(1ft) on FI setup, swapped to a 4.3 FD with 25” tire once FI.
86TOYO2k17 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 86TOYO2k17 For This Useful Post:
AlmondChassis (02-25-2021)
Old 02-25-2021, 11:42 PM   #28
AlmondChassis
Member
 
AlmondChassis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Drives: Subaru BRZ MY16
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 22
Thanks: 4
Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17 View Post
A 245/45/18? Thats a massive difference vs stock. Stock is 24.6” thats 26.7” , if that’s your actual size tire then a 4.88 would be almost identical to my old 24.9” tire with 4.56 fd setup. So going that aggressive makes more sense.

Speed limit here is 60mph on freeway. 45-55 on hwy usually.

My NA setup on 92 octane ran a verified dragy 0-60 in 6.6 or 6.4 1ft roll out. fastest I’ve seen an NA auto run especially not on E85.

4.8 / 4.6(1ft) on FI setup, swapped to a 4.3 FD with 25” tire once FI.
Then maybe 4.88 will be the best ratio because of my wheel size setup. 6.6 is actually really good compared to stock!
AlmondChassis is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DRL problem, HELP PLEASE! Hentai Cosmetic Modification (Interior/Exterior/Lighting) 10 02-19-2015 04:54 PM
E85 problem asher187 Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 4 08-27-2013 10:37 PM
DDM HID Problem LinknLog Cosmetic Modification (Interior/Exterior/Lighting) 18 04-11-2013 12:43 PM
Problem! axss Scion FR-S / Toyota 86 GT86 General Forum 32 11-24-2012 02:31 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2022 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.