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GR86 General Topics (2nd Gen 2022+ Toyota 86) General topics for the GR86 second-gen 86


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Old 05-10-2022, 12:59 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2 View Post
You've used shivs tunes?
Nope and won't. I defended him for two years as he slowly but surely stopped replying to people and half the threads on here were "where the hell did Shiv go?".
Customer support should not dry up just because you have moved onto the next new thing.
How he started
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96556

How he ended up
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141451

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117046

There are loads more but my point is made.
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Old 05-10-2022, 01:21 PM   #30
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Well, TruBoost on the GR86 forum says with apparent inside knowledge that Shiv is working on it. Just went to their site and confirmed no "news." I will believe it when I see it - but am hopeful.

Yes, assuming it is a similar situation to Gen1, it will not be conducive to boosted Gen2 cars (of course, there isn't even a boosted Gen2 option yet, so there is that...).

As for adjustment, not sure I see much difference between EcuTek and OFT. Obviously, EcuTek requires you to work with a tuner who then, presumably, uses a dyno to help dial in what are the stock tunes. OFT had guys like Steve and Wayno (and Shiv actually) who did the same thing just working off ECU datalogs. If you want to squeeze every last HP out of it, I could see EcuTek being better. But I do believe OFT provided great value.
OFT definitely provides value. I ran one on my NC1, traded it in, then used it for both 91 and E85 tunes on my BRZ.

But it ends up being a lot more DIY because of the lack of support from the guy who sells it to you. For me, I have other stuff I want to do. So spending a bunch of time datalogging, learning the parameters, messing with the tunes, etc. No thanks.

I'd rather get an EcuTek tune, do some datalogging on a dyno, send it back for a revision. And then be done with it.
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Old 05-10-2022, 02:04 PM   #31
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I've never had a problem with shivs tunes. Still using his e85 flash
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Old 05-10-2022, 02:59 PM   #32
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I've never had a problem with shivs tunes. Still using his e85 flash
There is nothing wrong with them, they are just far from optimized.

And there are many accounts of people trying to datalog and get revisions to improve their tune and getting anything from waiting a very long time for a response, to never getting a response.
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Old 05-10-2022, 03:27 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by CincyJohn View Post
Well, TruBoost on the GR86 forum says with apparent inside knowledge that Shiv is working on it. Just went to their site and confirmed no "news." I will believe it when I see it - but am hopeful.

Yes, assuming it is a similar situation to Gen1, it will not be conducive to boosted Gen2 cars (of course, there isn't even a boosted Gen2 option yet, so there is that...).

As for adjustment, not sure I see much difference between EcuTek and OFT. Obviously, EcuTek requires you to work with a tuner who then, presumably, uses a dyno to help dial in what are the stock tunes. OFT had guys like Steve and Wayno (and Shiv actually) who did the same thing just working off ECU datalogs. If you want to squeeze every last HP out of it, I could see EcuTek being better. But I do believe OFT provided great value.
Agreed.

Was talking with @tomm.brz who has done all my custom tuning via much data logging back and forth. Shout out since he can also do tunes like steve99.

Found some info he had posted a whole back buried in the forums when I went full catless that allows you to lean out AFR to 15.5:1 or so while cruising around on open loop. Helps with fumes in cabin and in general. The short of it, is that you can only do this correctly with ecutek software.

He will be able to better explain it than me but the just of what I understand is that there are two tables the ECU uses and only one available via OFT to play with compared to both tables on ecutek.

Overall a pretty minor difference, not enough to say you need one more than the other with an NA setup.
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Old 05-10-2022, 10:05 PM   #34
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So keep my K24 swapped BRZ with a Haltech indefinitely, and forever have it registered in a smog exempt area of California, and never get pulled over. Got it.
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Old 05-11-2022, 05:06 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
Nope and won't. I defended him for two years as he slowly but surely stopped replying to people and half the threads on here were "where the hell did Shiv go?".
Customer support should not dry up just because you have moved onto the next new thing.
How he started
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96556

How he ended up
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141451

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117046

There are loads more but my point is made.
Your point is bullshit because you have no personal experience with open flash. You're just looking for attention
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Old 05-11-2022, 05:18 AM   #36
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shiv has had customer issues since the n54 days of bmws. nothing new here.
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Old 05-11-2022, 06:10 AM   #37
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What kind of tuner/flasher comes with the HKS supercharger kit? Hopefully that's unaffected and HKS still exports their S/C kit to the U.S.
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Old 05-11-2022, 08:10 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2 View Post
Your point is bullshit because you have no personal experience with open flash. You're just looking for attention
You asked me a question and I answered it with evidence to support my statement. How is that "looking for attention". If you don't want an answer don't ask a question.

It is nice that you had no problems and as the documentation I presented show there were indeed very few issues early in the 86 game. In 2019 when I was looking to see if tuning was a direction I would go instead of buying new I researched tunes and OFT was one of them. All of the info I could find at that time indicated that they had pretty much dropped all support for the platform. As an added bonus, through the research I did I discovered that this was pretty much the norm for any platform they developed tunes for. They started out hot and heavy then just gradually disappeared. The cry or "Where is Shiv" can be found on almost any platform forum you want to look at.
I have never said that there were issues wit their products but simply that their customer service sucks as a product ages. The fact that you as an individual had no issues is greatly outweighed by the masses that did.
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Old 05-11-2022, 08:55 AM   #39
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I don’t know about outside California, but I’m sure it will be harder and harder to find products that will ship into California and be sold from California stores. I feel like there will still be ECUTEK for CARB kits, so tuning from there will be possible, but someone will need to switch back to a CARB tune and setup for smog. There should be enough ECUTEKs to tune cars. I don’t know if they will be going after tuners aggressively.
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Old 05-11-2022, 09:37 AM   #40
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I don’t know about outside California, but I’m sure it will be harder and harder to find products that will ship into California and be sold from California stores. I feel like there will still be ECUTEK for CARB kits, so tuning from there will be possible, but someone will need to switch back to a CARB tune and setup for smog. There should be enough ECUTEKs to tune cars. I don’t know if they will be going after tuners aggressively.
From the trade magazines I have read (I have to follow this stuff for my job) they will be mostly focused on the manufacturers and distributers of equipment/parts/tunes for the first stage of the increased enforcement. The end users such as the tuners and individuals using that equipment/parts/tunes will have a couple of years yet before they get down to enforcing at that level. The laws are set up to include the end users but the current target is still the source. Of course the point becomes moot if you can't get the stuff to start with.

Oh and this applies to all the US and Canada not just California.
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Old 05-11-2022, 11:54 PM   #41
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From the trade magazines I have read (I have to follow this stuff for my job) they will be mostly focused on the manufacturers and distributers of equipment/parts/tunes for the first stage of the increased enforcement. The end users such as the tuners and individuals using that equipment/parts/tunes will have a couple of years yet before they get down to enforcing at that level. The laws are set up to include the end users but the current target is still the source. Of course the point becomes moot if you can't get the stuff to start with.

Oh and this applies to all the US and Canada not just California.
I'm following what you are saying, and I could imagine a scenario where no manufactures or retailers are able to sell headers, for instance, without risking a steep fine, but I'm just wondering if this would also mean CARB EOs will end. If someone buys a CARB JRSC kit and flashes the CARB tune with ECUTEK then they could still flash to a different tune and flash back to the CARB tune for smog like people do for other mods too. That same person could also sell the ECUTEK dongle and cable if they have no plans to flash the ECU again, so what is stopping someone from using that ECUTEK to flash their car with a non-CARB tune and flashing back to stock during smog? What if someone sells their CARB JRSC kit, and the new owner needs to buy a license from ECUTEK to be able to flash a CARB tune? It seems like there are paths for getting the equipment and license if they plan on allowing CARB parts and tunes. Maybe they plan to end the EO program.

Is this only for vehicle specific parts and not for generic parts? Like will aftermarket fuel pumps be illegal? People have said that "race" or "off-road" labels on parts will not fly, so does this mean professional motorsports will end, or will they buy parts to a third party warehouse that will verify authenticity before shipping or something elaborate? Will it be like Honda selling K20c1 crate motors only to Honda Raceline members? Will GM stop selling crate engines? I feel like vagaries in the law never end well for those trying to uphold the vague laws in court.
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Old 05-12-2022, 02:47 AM   #42
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Quote:
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Hate to break it to you but Australia has had similar legislation in place for 5 years now.

https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2017A00104

Even the "non road" engines have a certification requirement. This would include their tune.

https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2018C00452

Marking "for off road only" no longer works even there. It all comes down to one line really:

Offences and civil penalties apply:

(a) if an emissions‑controlled product is imported or supplied and the product is not certified, or marked as required;
Like I said, its not the same.

In Australia the 'Product' is explicitly defined.

https://www.awe.gov.au/sites/default...-standards.pdf

You cannot ban tuning products for instance, while you might still be in breach of a number of laws for modifying your car without the relevant paperwork, there is no legal device that can disallow sale of anything but the engines themselves.

And even then, it can only disallow the sale of new engines - existing or second hand sales of these products are not covered by the law.
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