Question about first gear possible problem

[T_Squadrito]

Got under the car today. Everything is on there nice and good. Nothing loose. I tried hard take offs and I was able to get donuts and hard take offs no problem. First time driving the car hard. No crunching or slipping. I didn’t have problems til I go to hills again and I think it is clutch related. Under 2500rpm I was straight slipping or almost stalling on a hill and when it was slipping that’s when you hear that noise. If I go over 3000 rpm on a hill then the noise didn’t happen but clutch did slip a LOT. Then back on flat ground we are all good again right back to hard take offs and donuts slip free. This is getting more and more confusing. I want to add to this. Yes user error could play a roll, but not to this degree. Its weird. The noises I am hearing don't sound (to me) like the sort of thing that just easing off the clutch a little fast or slow would cause, and more over, why am I so affected by a few degrees incline?

[Dzmitry]

Originally Posted by T_Squadrito

Got under the car today. Everything is on there nice and good. Nothing loose. I tried hard take offs and I was able to get donuts and hard take offs no problem. First time driving the car hard. No crunching or slipping. I didn’t have problems til I go to hills again and I think it is clutch related. Under 2500rpm I was straight slipping or almost stalling on a hill and when it was slipping that’s when you hear that noise. If I go over 3000 rpm on a hill then the noise didn’t happen but clutch did slip a LOT. Then back on flat ground we are all good again right back to hard take offs and donuts slip free. This is getting more and more confusing. I want to add to this. Yes user error could play a roll, but not to this degree. Its weird. The noises I am hearing don't sound (to me) like the sort of thing that just easing off the clutch a little fast or slow would cause, and more over, why am I so affected by a few degrees incline?

Have you inspected for any transmission fluid leaks? Does your clutch feel any softer on engagement?

[T_Squadrito]

Originally Posted by Dzmitry

Have you inspected for any transmission fluid leaks? Does your clutch feel any softer on engagement?

I didn't see any leaks while I was down there and it doesnt feel softer, but then again I don't have a great reference of what it normally feels like on a BRZ. I think you had commented on my original thread where I was commenting on it acting up and after the fluid change it was a night and day improvement. I haven't noticed any leaking and they didn't say they saw anything down there. I noticed this a little bit and someone else over on the thread had told me they think this is from the fluid change, before I got a video with audio of it, and maybe it is, but I don't know that I am 100% convinced yet. It sounds just a little strange to me. I think this may be unrelated to the issues I was targeting with the fluid change.

I have since had 2 different friends in the car with me hear it from different places in the same region of the vihicle. One thought it was tire rub at first except I was going straight, then once I showed him it wasn't, he was like, yeah thats not good, but the thought it was coming from the wheel area. Another friend said its definitely in front towards the engine some where but hes not sure where and thought it was more towards the center of the vihicle than the sides, but he said it didnt sound like it was coming from the transmission, and I am inclined to agree that I don't believe its tha transmission given that its hapening well after getting in gear and getting moving.

I am supposed to get it looked at on tuesday so hopefully they will be able to replicate the problem and give me a decent idea of what they think it is. My suspissions are narrowed down to: The clutch is slipping a little and its causing the bearings to knock around; or something suspension related; or possible the tensioner. Hopefully I will find out tuesday but I also hope maybe one of you all will have an idea to help narrow this down more. The more cross-referencing I can do the better.

[Dzmitry]

Originally Posted by T_Squadrito

I didn't see any leaks while I was down there and it doesnt feel softer, but then again I don't have a great reference of what it normally feels like on a BRZ. I think you had commented on my original thread where I was commenting on it acting up and after the fluid change it was a night and day improvement. I haven't noticed any leaking and they didn't say they saw anything down there. I noticed this a little bit and someone else over on the thread had told me they think this is from the fluid change, before I got a video with audio of it, and maybe it is, but I don't know that I am 100% convinced yet. It sounds just a little strange to me. I think this may be unrelated to the issues I was targeting with the fluid change.

I have since had 2 different friends in the car with me hear it from different places in the same region of the vihicle. One thought it was tire rub at first except I was going straight, then once I showed him it wasn't, he was like, yeah thats not good, but the thought it was coming from the wheel area. Another friend said its definitely in front towards the engine some where but hes not sure where and thought it was more towards the center of the vihicle than the sides, but he said it didnt sound like it was coming from the transmission, and I am inclined to agree that I don't believe its tha transmission given that its hapening well after getting in gear and getting moving.

I am supposed to get it looked at on tuesday so hopefully they will be able to replicate the problem and give me a decent idea of what they think it is. My suspissions are narrowed down to: The clutch is slipping a little and its causing the bearings to knock around; or something suspension related; or possible the tensioner. Hopefully I will find out tuesday but I also hope maybe one of you all will have an idea to help narrow this down more. The more cross-referencing I can do the better.

Yeah unfortunately this is not something I am an expert at, at least I never experienced or heard of anyone with the type of problem you're having in particular. So hopefully others can chime in with some thoughts. The way you described it with the clutch slip on the hills makes it seem like it MUST be trans related. I am just trying to understand why it would feel or act up that way on hills but not in other conditions. I would still like to think it has to be some part in there acting up, and that somehow the condition of an incline really pronounces it, but I from everything I've looked up, I'm not familiar with this.

[T_Squadrito]

Originally Posted by Dzmitry

Yeah unfortunately this is not something I am an expert at, at least I never experienced or heard of anyone with the type of problem you're having in particular. So hopefully others can chime in with some thoughts. The way you described it with the clutch slip on the hills makes it seem like it MUST be trans related. I am just trying to understand why it would feel or act up that way on hills but not in other conditions. I would still like to think it has to be some part in there acting up, and that somehow the condition of an incline really pronounces it, but I from everything I've looked up, I'm not familiar with this.

Yeah its really strange. I don't know that it is the hill as much as the ratio of gas to clutch on the hill. In spite of what I said in the video, I went ahead and did hard take offs and donuts and not a single sound or feeling out of place but that was all on flat ground. On hills, its weird. Maybe I am gassing too much and not letting up on the clutch enough but when I let up faster I start to stall. If I gas less and let up slower the prius next to me can take off faster. It is a little disturbing. I don't have this problem with the civic or 350 but this car also drives a LOT different than both of them in my opinion. This is the first time in many years I have been left scratching my head on more than one occasion in a manual. On tuesday my mechanic will look at the car and they don't actually work on subarus so I like them. They will tell me whats wrong and then not fix it which makes me happy because I know they have no reason to bull shit me about some expensive repair I don't need. Hopefully they have some insight.

I should add that when they drained the fluids they said they found no metal shavings. Besides the fluid showing its age a bit they found no cause for alarm from the fluids alone, so that is a point for the transmission, but not definitive and also says nothing about the clutch.

[T_Squadrito]

I just came to a huge realization. I don't think the clutch pedal adjustment is causing it, but I do think it has to do with it. In a way. So, I didn't have the problem all that noticeably until I adjusted my clutch pedal, but I didn't go anywhere near as far as I have seen some people go. I think the problem is the clutch, but I think it's not fully disengaging. Here's why I think that. It wasnt bad when it was just stupid long travel, but now that the travel is reduced even a little it is having a problem, and when I adjust it even a milimeter more, I have the problem all the time. I am going to double check and just be sure I dont have any leaks in the master or slave, but I am now very curious if the clutch is going bad and sticking a little, or if it is a fluid problem.

[Dzmitry]

Originally Posted by T_Squadrito

Yeah its really strange. I don't know that it is the hill as much as the ratio of gas to clutch on the hill. In spite of what I said in the video, I went ahead and did hard take offs and donuts and not a single sound or feeling out of place but that was all on flat ground. On hills, its weird. Maybe I am gassing too much and not letting up on the clutch enough but when I let up faster I start to stall. If I gas less and let up slower the prius next to me can take off faster. It is a little disturbing. I don't have this problem with the civic or 350 but this car also drives a LOT different than both of them in my opinion. This is the first time in many years I have been left scratching my head on more than one occasion in a manual. On tuesday my mechanic will look at the car and they don't actually work on subarus so I like them. They will tell me whats wrong and then not fix it which makes me happy because I know they have no reason to bull shit me about some expensive repair I don't need. Hopefully they have some insight.

I should add that when they drained the fluids they said they found no metal shavings. Besides the fluid showing its age a bit they found no cause for alarm from the fluids alone, so that is a point for the transmission, but not definitive and also says nothing about the clutch.

Makes sense, shouldn't be any reason for shavings, at least you would hope not, otherwise you've got much bigger problems lol. It's definitely not you, as with everything you've described, you know what you're doing more or less on a manual. This car should be plenty forgiving too, I have had no issues whatsoever that you describe on hills. Ratio plays a role here, but as I said, it's pretty forgiving and you should not have any problems.

Sounds like you might be onto something with the clutch engagement thoughts. Very odd though that you would get such a loud, metal-like, crunching noise with a clutch problem. Or maybe I'm just not familiar enough with the potential sounds that could come out of that. @Ultramaroon I forget if you're the one with some expertise on this subject and would be able to share any thoughts. If not, my apologies for thy summoning.

[T_Squadrito]

Originally Posted by Dzmitry

Makes sense, shouldn't be any reason for shavings, at least you would hope not, otherwise you've got much bigger problems lol. It's definitely not you, as with everything you've described, you know what you're doing more or less on a manual. This car should be plenty forgiving too, I have had no issues whatsoever that you describe on hills. Ratio plays a role here, but as I said, it's pretty forgiving and you should not have any problems.

Sounds like you might be onto something with the clutch engagement thoughts. Very odd though that you would get such a loud, metal-like, crunching noise with a clutch problem. Or maybe I'm just not familiar enough with the potential sounds that could come out of that. @Ultramaroon I forget if you're the one with some expertise on this subject and would be able to share any thoughts. If not, my apologies for thy summoning.

Yes @Ultramaroon was the one who suggested my initial description as being from the fluid change but it has since evolved so maybe he can way in. I also spoke to him when I did the adjustment. I linked to a video where you can hear it in my first post and somewhere near the end of the first page.

The part that is putting me off is, I find so many people having the exact same sound but nothing that I am experiencing is ticking every box. Could be suspension related but I am not having any other related symptoms. could be axle related but no clicking. Could be exhaust related but no loose bolts. Could be scraping but nothing is misaligned behind the brakes. Could be motor mounts... havent actually looked into that one yet... Found someone with a similar issue on another car and it ended up being the fuel pump and what they were hearing was coming from the engine. Could be a warn-out belt and what I am hearing is the tensioner but again, only on hills? Could be transmission but it only happens on hils and turns but although I can, I struggle to simulate it on flat ground. When it does happen on flat ground it is way less of an issue. No apparent leaks. I noticed SOME issue before my adjustment but nothing serious and all other problems I thought I was having was easily remedied with the fluid change. This is a head scratcher.

My thoughts about the clutch sticking is, if its getting stuck it jerks the car and as it jerks the car it could be something in the engine or momentarily causing something to be misaligned with the shaft. But that B is on there pretty good so who knows. At this point I am just trying to narrow down possibilities and try to give the mechanic an idea of my (cough) our thoughts given that there is so much to look at and so much it could be. It's not like I am trying to diagnose why the car makes a weird noise when I trun the wheel a certain way.

[Dzmitry]

Originally Posted by T_Squadrito

Yest @Ultramaroon was the one who suggested my initial description as being from the fluid change but it has since evolved so maybe he can way in. I linked to a video where you can hear it in my first post and somewhere near the end of the first page. The part that is putting me off is, I find so many people having the exact same sound but nothing that I am experiencing is ticking every box. Could be suspension related but I am not having any other related symptoms. could be axle related but no clicking. Could be exhaust related but no loose bolts. Could be scraping but nothing is misaligned behind the brakes. Could be transmission but it only happens on hils and turns but although I can, I struggle to simulate it on flat ground. When it does happen on flat ground it is way less of an issue. No apparent leaks. I noticed SOME issue before my adjustment but nothing serious and all other problems I thought I was having was easily remedied with the fluid change. This is a head scratcher.

Unlikely suspension related, because that wouldn't explain any clutch slipping. Definitely shouldn't be exhaust related, as that is in a totally different department, unless there's just some additional unrelated sounds happening from that at the same time. Axle is a possibility. Scraping is unprobeable due to first two reasons. I may have missed you mention that you experience it on turns before... two things - could be differential or bad CV joint. CV joint issues should cause other symptoms that you don't seem to experience, so I'd lean more toward a differential problem?

[T_Squadrito]

Originally Posted by Dzmitry

Unlikely suspension related, because that wouldn't explain any clutch slipping. Definitely shouldn't be exhaust related, as that is in a totally different department, unless there's just some additional unrelated sounds happening from that at the same time. Axle is a possibility. Scraping is unprobeable due to first two reasons. I may have missed you mention that you experience it on turns before... two things - could be differential or bad CV joint. CV joint issues should cause other symptoms that you don't seem to experience, so I'd lean more toward a differential problem?

Someone did make that suggestion on another forum about early stages of the CV going bad. No issues on turns. At least none that I notice. Doesn't seem to make all that much of a difference but adjusting the clutch to have shorter travel does. which brings me back to the clutch because the transmission wasn't having problems getting into gear at all and wasn't grinding except during the same type of accelleration but adjusting it lower and it was having the problem all the time instead of just on hills... but I may be imagining that because I was pushing the car a bit harder in stages during the adjustment to try to see where the limits of the adjustment were.

[Dzmitry]

Originally Posted by T_Squadrito

Someone did make that suggestion on another forum about early stages of the CV going bad. No issues on turns. At least none that I notice. Doesn't seem to make all that much of a difference but adjusting the clutch to be shorter does. which brings me back to the clutch because the transmission wasn't having problems getting into gear at all and wasn't grinding except during the same type of accelleration but adjusting it lower and it was having the problem all the time instead of just on hills... but I may be imagining that because I was pushing the car a bit harder in stages during the adjustment to try to see where the limits of the adjustment were.

I am not too familiar with symptoms of clutch adjustment as I have never bothered doing so, but here's a quick quote I just pulled off some website.

"For the clutch to work efficiently, the right amount of play in the linkage between the clutch pedal and clutch fork (or release arm) is necessary. If not enough free play exists, a slipping clutch will result."

I know you said you started to play around with it a bit to see how it behaves, have you made the attempt to adjust it back to stock?

[T_Squadrito]

Originally Posted by Dzmitry

I am not too familiar with symptoms of clutch adjustment as I have never bothered doing so, but here's a quick quote I just pulled off some website.

"For the clutch to work efficiently, the right amount of play in the linkage between the clutch pedal and clutch fork (or release arm) is necessary. If not enough free play exists, a slipping clutch will result."

I know you said you started to play around with it a bit to see how it behaves, have you made the attempt to adjust it back to stock?

Doing it first thing in the morning. The thing I find strange is there are people who go WAYYY farther than me, but I am also curious if my clutch isn't stock. I put the pedal parallel to the brake pedal. I have seen people successfully go a full few mm lower problem-free, or at least they claim. There was definitely some work done on the car that wasn't factory that didn't show up on the carfax so if they put a different clutch in then maybe I have less room to play with it than normal but it is super soft so I doubt its aftermarket if they did. Tomorrow morning it will go back to its OG 5 foot travel and well see. Probnably should have lead with that but all in all it had seemed to be resolved and previously you werent the first person to say it was low on the list of likelyhood so I have been slowballing bringing it back to stock

[Dzmitry]

Originally Posted by T_Squadrito

Doing it first thing in the morning. The thing I find strange is there are people who go WAYYY farther than me, but I am also curious if my clutch isn't stock. I put the pedal parallel to the brake pedal. I have seen people successfully go a full few mm lower problem-free, or at least they claim. There was definitely some work done on the car that wasn't factory that didn't show up on the carfax so if they put a different clutch in then maybe I have less room to play with it than normal but it is super soft so I doubt its aftermarket if they did. Tomorrow morning it will go back to its OG 5 foot travel and well see.

There is definitely a large history of people doing this with no issues. But bringing it back is certainly a good starting point to see what results you arrive at.

[T_Squadrito]

Originally Posted by Dzmitry

There is definitely a large history of people doing this with no issues. But bringing it back is certainly a good starting point to see what results you arrive at.

The more I am reading the fork travel specs the more I am thinking it may ACTUALLY be the adjustment. I don't entirely know why other people are able to adjust it so much more than I am, but I have a sneaking suspission this is it. I will check back first thing in the AM eastern time once I deal with it and let you all know how it goes after I give it a test drive. Before the great and wonderful @Ultramaroon shows up I should add that I have gone through the clutch slipping check list, second gear at a stop, third to 4th rolling, all that jazz, and nothing stands out to me.... except when I am on a hill, and only from a full stop... so I am hoping that if it is (and it probably is) the clutch adjustment, that this should clear right up... I hope... and that nothing took TOO too much of a beating if this was the cause.