CSG Spec Tein Flex A Owners Thread

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The most elegant solution, IMO, is to just use a custom shock sleeve to run the CSG FLA at the normal recommended height, using the sleeve to extend the damper total length to fit the wisefab without extensive preload.
Quite literally, it's almost perfect.

Originally Posted by Var

You wouldn't acknowledge that there was a problem with my combination of parts and you were talking past me. If you really want me to dig up all your deflections and inconsistent responses, I can do that.

Also, I already told CSG in an email that I would accept their rear sleeve solution if they guaranteed me no rear geometry defects. That was before I even posted in here. I didn't get any response after I asked them for that assurance.

I've been informed of your threats against CSG by David, and will no longer be communicating with you per CSG's Attorney's requests beyond this post. While I collect neither W2 nor 1099 from CSG, this account with "CSG" in it implies representation, per council.

Originally Posted by Var

Forget my ongoing issue with CSG for the moment. That's none of your business any longer. I'm just talking about setup and potential negative consequences of using a certain part in an unintended way, which is what I'm trying to avoid.

I want you to envision my control arms parallel right now. And envision them when I lift the car another inch, regardless of the method i use to lift the car (barring of course uninstalling the wisefab kit if you're going to be pedantic) Let's just say I used sleeves to raise it

Originally Posted by Var

I'm done arguing about this here, as it's going to take away from the purpose of this thread, which is the coilovers, which are quite good. This is going to get resolved by email in private. I originally came here to see if I could raise the car which was still coilover related. Thanks for everyone's input

I now see what this "email in private" is. Have a nice day.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

Then you need an extended sleeve that's at least 20mm longer.

Due to the location, 50mm would be the minimum, to have reasonable thread engagement.

[Var]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I now see what this "email in private" is. Have a nice day.

Yes indeed. When someone doesn't take responsibility for their mistake, this is the only recourse left. Especially when he offered this sleeve solution and I asked him to guarantee me no negative geometry side effects, and he cut off communication with me. That doesn't sound like a good faith offer to me.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

When increasing the preload (without touching the lower mount / changing the damper length), the car surely gets higher, not lower.

If you still don't believe me, I just found this IG post by RCE on preload: https://www.instagram.com/p/B9J1M8Un0k5/

Slide 4 says literally:

Increasing preload raises the car.
It will also increase your compression travel and reduce your droop (or extensions) travel.

Reducing preload lowers the car and reduces compression travel.
It also increases your droop travel.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

If you still don't believe me, I just found this IG post by RCE on preload: https://www.instagram.com/p/B9J1M8Un0k5/

Slide 4 says literally:

You're not wrong. It's just not a universal statement, just how universal "damping guides" or "tire pressure guides" are really application specific.

If you're preloading the Flex A to the point where you're altering ride height, you've sacrificed all your droop travel for no reason. Use the independent height adjustment instead.

Likewise, it's like trying to apply strut geometry to a double wishbone, or vice versa.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

If you're preloading the Flex A to the point where you're altering ride height, you've sacrificed all your droop travel for no reason.

Changing the preload on Flex A from 0 to 10 mm, without touching the sleeve, will increase the ride height by 10 mm.
From 0 to 20 mm will increase the ride height by 20 mm.
From 5 mm to 20 mm will increase the ride height by 15 mm.

In order for extra preload to not affect the ride height you'll need something like 60 mm of preload to begin with.

If you still don't believe that's true, just try it and see what happens.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Real world trial and error is how you validate/invalidate. Even with the best suspension models, real world testing still trumps all.

... if you can correctly interpret the data.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

Changing the preload on Flex A from 0 to 10 mm, without touching the sleeve, will increase the ride height by 10 mm.
From 0 to 20 mm will increase the ride height by 20 mm.
From 5 mm to 20 mm will increase the ride height by 15 mm.

In order for extra preload to not affect the ride height you'll need something like 60 mm of preload to begin with.

If you still don't believe that's true, just try it and see what happens.



... if you can correctly interpret the data.

I think you should try it yourself. Individual preloading corners will not be 1:1.

There are cars with divorced springs, where preloading only drops the height, not raise.

The data is only as good as the integrity and repeatability of the data. You can interpret it to reach whatever conclusion you like!

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I think you should try it yourself. Individual preloading corners will not be 1:1.

I tried it myself. I wasn't changing individual corners, I was changing both wheels on the same axle at the same time.
Minor self-correction: in the previous post I forgot to account for the motion ratio. 1mm of preload change ~= 0.95 ride height change in the front, or ~= 0.75 ride height change in the rear.

[benzz280]

After a few months of driving, I can say that I am pleased with these coilovers. Coming from eibach prokit + stock shocks, they definitely improve ride quality at street/comfort setting which ride much much better. Personally I would never go for just lowering springs anymore on any of my car. Havent got a chance to track it yet so cant comment on that.

I do have a minor (i hope) issue with rear right strut where one time when i was adjusting the damping my son interrupted me and lost track of the click counts. So i decided to turn the adjuster clockwise all the way to the stiffest setting BUT it would not stop or resist clicking aka it can click infinitely! The other 3 struts didnt have this issue. At this point I think i had turned it more than 20 clicks or so from where i last lost the coint. So I figured i should stop and assume its already at the stiffest and turn it 11 clicks counterclockwise to get the comfort setting. Hopefully i didnt damage the strut. So far i dont find any indifference in ride quality.....yet.

@CSG Mike @CSG David

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by benzz280

After a few months of driving, I can say that I am pleased with these coilovers. Coming from eibach prokit + stock shocks, they definitely improve ride quality at street/comfort setting which ride much much better. Personally I would never go for just lowering springs anymore on any of my car. Havent got a chance to track it yet so cant comment on that.

I do have a minor (i hope) issue with rear right strut where one time when i was adjusting the damping my son interrupted me and lost track of the click counts. So i decided to turn the adjuster clockwise all the way to the stiffest setting BUT it would not stop or resist clicking aka it can click infinitely! The other 3 struts didnt have this issue. At this point I think i had turned it more than 20 clicks or so from where i last lost the coint. So I figured i should stop and assume its already at the stiffest and turn it 11 clicks counterclockwise to get the comfort setting. Hopefully i didnt damage the strut. So far i dont find any indifference in ride quality.....yet.

@CSG Mike @CSG David

It definitely should have a stopping point for "maximum" damping. However, the full range is more than 20 clicks, so its possible you may not have gone all the way. Only the top 16 clicks are effective; the rest is just unused overhead.

[benzz280]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

It definitely should have a stopping point for "maximum" damping. However, the full range is more than 20 clicks, so its possible you may not have gone all the way. Only the top 16 clicks are effective; the rest is just unused overhead.

Yeah i immediately stopped turning it clockwise when i felt a slight more resistance and assume that is at its stiffest setting. At this point I think i had turned it more than 30 clicks in total to find the slight resistance. Any way of knowing if i have damaged it?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by benzz280

Yeah i immediately stopped turning it clockwise when i felt a slight more resistance and assume that is at its stiffest setting. At this point I think i had turned it more than 30 clicks in total to find the slight resistance. Any way of knowing if i have damaged it?

If it behaves as expected, then no damage!

Otherwise there would be no way to tell without disassembling the damper.

[vagthomas]

@CSG Mike

Regarding the more than 16 clicks of dumping adjustment on my flex As, I could not find any more details other than raw information across web. I know it has been discussed here and there, but could not trace any in depth explanation as to why I should not pass 16 clicks CCW (from full stiff).

As per Tein, they use the same click knob on their race coilovers, thats why the knob can go more than 16 clicks. I know also that tein advises not go beyond 16 click CCW as can damage the needle valve setting. They also say that even though you can go further than 16 (27 in my case), only the 16 clicks actually adjust damping, rest do not do anything.

So here come my questions:

1) Could you please explain to me what exactly is meant by "damage the needle valve setting"? How does this exactly affect the performance of the damper? Is this also considered a damage on the damper or affect its lifespan?
2) I have always felt that the 16 clicks CCW (full soft) are actually a little stiff. I would expect them a little softer on bumps. However, even though they say that there is no any actual damping adjustment beyond 16 clicks CCW, then why at 21 CCW set now I feel them so much softer? Would it feel softer because damper actually is not operating properly? Could you tell me how it is actually working in there?
3) Since I am a little concerned about this amount of stiffness at 16 clicks CCW, how can I check the actual performance of the dampers practically? Unfortunately, I cannot dyno them anywhere here in Greece to compare with original curves that tein UK already provided me. Coilovers have only 20k km.

Many thanks in advance for your time

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by vagthomas

@CSG Mike

Regarding the more than 16 clicks of dumping adjustment on my flex As, I could not find any more details other than raw information across web. I know it has been discussed here and there, but could not trace any in depth explanation as to why I should not pass 16 clicks CCW (from full stiff).

As per Tein, they use the same click knob on their race coilovers, thats why the knob can go more than 16 clicks. I know also that tein advises not go beyond 16 click CCW as can damage the needle valve setting. They also say that even though you can go further than 16 (27 in my case), only the 16 clicks actually adjust damping, rest do not do anything.

So here come my questions:

1) Could you please explain to me what exactly is meant by "damage the needle valve setting"? How does this exactly affect the performance of the damper? Is this also considered a damage on the damper or affect its lifespan?
2) I have always felt that the 16 clicks CCW (full soft) are actually a little stiff. I would expect them a little softer on bumps. However, even though they say that there is no any actual damping adjustment beyond 16 clicks CCW, then why at 21 CCW set now I feel them so much softer? Would it feel softer because damper actually is not operating properly? Could you tell me how it is actually working in there?
3) Since I am a little concerned about this amount of stiffness at 16 clicks CCW, how can I check the actual performance of the dampers practically? Unfortunately, I cannot dyno them anywhere here in Greece to compare with original curves that tein UK already provided me. Coilovers have only 20k km.

Many thanks in advance for your time

Because if you go past the max, you can cause the calibration of the adjustment click to be off.

if you are getting less damping force beyond 16, then you've caused the calibration to become off.

At 16 clicks from maximum damping, the car should be very soft and ride like a boat.

Tein UK does not have the ability to sell CSG spec Flex A's.