Official: Toyota FT-1 Concept / First New Supra Prototype Spotted!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Well, OK, those I would, and admittedly I was referring to the pedal kind and did think about these later thinking someone is going to call me out on those. Thanks for not disappointing.

You could go more up to date though.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by ZDan

I don't think you can lump all automated transmissions into the same "DSG" category. I don't think they all need to have the next gearchange up or down queued up in advance. Also, I would bet some automated gearboxes are already configured to "learn" tracks and "know" what gear changes are coming up next. If that doesn't exist now it will soon. And for sure if you get on the brakes it's not a huge leap for AI to deduce that the next gearchange will be "down", or that if you stay on the gas and speed continues to climb that the next change will be "up".

All dual clutch boxes queue up gears. That's just how they work. The lag isn't DSG specific. If they mispredict a change then it will take extra time to correct. True that as soon as you hit the brakes it will correct it's misprediction and hopefully by the time you're ready to actually make the change it will be ready. But in your example you are only planning to upshift for a split second so you will most likely be hitting the brake and downshift paddle at the exact same time.

I'm sure in the future they will have a track mode were it uses GPS, accelerometer and driving history to better predict shifts based on your previous laps. This is great and far superior to the MT.. doesn't mean it's more fun though. It's all personal preference. I would be more proud of myself and feel more reward to beat another driver without a bunch of nancies doing a lot of the work for me. That's just me though and I probably am a minority. I just want options and I will not be shamed into feeling ignorant for wanting old tech.

Look at how lame F1 got there for a while before they dialed back some of the automation.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

If you want to narrow it down to autox and track enthusiasts I can agree. That is probably someplace around 5% of the owners of the cars you listed though. The car/driving enthusiasts that own the bulk of your list have never even considered hitting a track and never will. They can still enjoy the cars or driving them regardless of transmission type. The "challenge" of driving MT is your (and many others) personal preference but should not be extended to all drivers.

No one is advocating the death of the AT. It's the other way around. Hahaha. MT drivers don't want their options taken away.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by ermax

All dual clutch boxes queue up gears.

But not all performance-oriented automatic gearboxes are dual clutch...

If they mispredict a change then it will take extra time to correct.

Milliseconds...

But in your example you are only planning to upshift for a split second so you will most likely be hitting the brake and downshift paddle at the exact same time.

I've never hit the brakes and downshifted at exactly the same time. Have to bleed off *some* speed before it's even viable to downshift, and I delay downshifts as late as practical in the braking zone anyway. I don't envision ever hitting the brakes and downshift paddle at the same time. But if I did I don't doubt that a good semi-auto setup would handle it better than I can heel-toe-downshift while braking myself.

Look at how lame F1 got there for a while before they dialed back some of the automation.

I'd say F1 is lamer than ever these days, but it's all to do with aero and nothing to do with automation or lack thereof... Aero formula is so fuxored they have to result to absurd gimmicks like DRS to give the trailing car a 10+mph advantage down the straight and *still* the cars can't race each other. Garbage "racing"... MotoGP is infinitely better

[JeremyR]

Originally Posted by HKz

maybe @JeremyR is coming off a stint of driving a couch for a few decades and misses his butt being coddled ^^

that's kind of rude man, so fuck you.

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

You're in for a lot of push-back here. Even though I'm kinda big for it, 86 is by far the most comfortable vehicle I've ever operated. Road trips are pure fun.

This is a forum for discussion, so I welcome the push back if its not rude like the last guy.

I bought the BRZ to mod it and drive it in the canyons/mountains/track, not to work and back everyday.

It's nice having a dd that I don't have to worry about curbs or potholes or idiot drivers are anything else that could potentially damage or hurt the car during a mundane boring drive to work, or the store, or on a trip somewhere.

The twins are sports cars, so I use it for "sports" driving.

props and kudos to you all for using it for everything else. For all you guys with mostly stock or softer suspension, sure it's probably fine. I've been modifying cars for a long time, and driving something set up for aggressive driving on the streets is really not that fun sometimes. i don't daily an suv becuase it's fun, I daily it because its practical, safe, and has room for more than two people, and I can pack it up for trips to the gun range/camping/trips/etc/etc with ease. Plus it's comfortable.

Most of you sound so insecure saying you'd never daily an suv.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by JeremyR

Most of you sound so insecure saying you'd never daily an suv.

So stating how I feel suddenly makes me sound insecure? My wife has a SUV and I drive it sometimes for towing and stuff like that, but if I had to drive it on a regular basis I think my brain would turn to mush. Whatever floats your boat mate, but I still intend on daily driving fun cars for decades to come. It's what makes my commute tolerable.

[JeremyR]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

So stating how I feel suddenly makes me sound insecure? My wife has a SUV and I drive it sometimes for towing and stuff like that, but if I had to drive it on a regular basis I think my brain would turn to mush. Whatever floats your boat mate, but I still intend on daily driving fun cars for decades to come. It's what makes my commute tolerable.

yeah man, saying you would rather kill yourself than drive an suv is a pretty insecure thing to say.

My commute is less than 10 minutes. So kind of non-existent.

If I had to buy a fun car just to make a long commute tolerable, I would rethink my life choices. Spending hours of my day in a car in traffic is not fun. THAT would be something worthy of killing yourself over.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by ZDan

But not all performance-oriented automatic gearboxes are dual clutch...

But that's where they all seem to be going.

Originally Posted by ZDan

Milliseconds...

That isn't what I've read but I will take your word for it.

Originally Posted by ZDan

I've never hit the brakes and downshifted at exactly the same time. Have to bleed off *some* speed before it's even viable to downshift, and I delay downshifts as late as practical in the braking zone anyway. I don't envision ever hitting the brakes and downshift paddle at the same time. But if I did I don't doubt that a good semi-auto setup would handle it better than I can heel-toe-downshift while braking myself.

On an MT when heal toeing it's one motion though. You shave so much speed so fast in the upper gears it's already shaved enough by the time you've blipped and gone through all the motions. I say at the same time but in reality it's not exactly. I have no track experience with any dual-clutch boxes but thinking in my head with the queuing error of going up a gear and then turning right around and downshifting again I just don't think your going to save that much time with the auto (in that scenario). To me the largest benefit of an auto on track would simply be the ability to keep both hands on the wheel at all times and not have to delay a shift or short shift to avoid shifting while you hands are tied up.

Originally Posted by ZDan

I'd say F1 is lamer than ever these days, but it's all to do with aero and nothing to do with automation or lack thereof... Aero formula is so fuxored they have to result to absurd gimmicks like DRS to give the trailing car a 10+mph advantage down the straight and *still* the cars can't race each other. Garbage "racing"... MotoGP is infinitely better

I agree those things made it lame too but it was more lame when no one was sliding around or making mistakes for others to capitalize on. I prefer racing when it's more about the driver. I also like the technology race but only if it's not taking away from the driver's role.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by JeremyR

yeah man, saying you would rather kill yourself than drive an suv is a pretty insecure thing to say.

My commute is less than 10 minutes. So kind of non-existent.

If I had to buy a fun car just to make a long commute tolerable, I would rethink my life choices. Spending hours of my day in a car in traffic is not fun. THAT would be something worthy of killing yourself over.

It's a figure of speech my friend, I'm not literally going to take a gun to my head... you don't have to worry I enjoy riding motorcycles and fun cars so a SUV is basically that last type of vehicle I would choose for my mode of transportation.

Honestly if my commute was less than 10 minutes via car I'd much rather just ride a bicycle. Does that make me sound insecure too?

[JeremyR]

Originally Posted by ermax

I agree those things made it lame too but it was more lame when no one was sliding around or making mistakes for others to capitalize on. I prefer racing when it's more about the driver. I also like the technology race but only if it's not taking away from the driver's role.

I agree, there's nothing better than driving a car with no nannies and running through the gears yourself. Driver focused racing will always be more exciting.

Those weird robot ai race cars coming out are great technology-wise, but will be boring to watch because you removed the human element.

F1 is less interesting these days because all the tech has made it more boring to watch.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by JeremyR

yeah man, saying you would rather kill yourself than drive an suv is a pretty insecure thing to say.

My commute is less than 10 minutes. So kind of non-existent.

If I had to buy a fun car just to make a long commute tolerable, I would rethink my life choices. Spending hours of my day in a car in traffic is not fun. THAT would be something worthy of killing yourself over.

I think you need to look up the definition of the word insecure. Your use of it is way off.

Anyways, I don't NEED a sports car to make a long drive tolerable but I would RATHER drive a sports car in literally any circumstance (even stop and go traffic) over a big heavy SUV that drives like a tank. I used to have 900lbs/1200lbs springs on my Integra and still DDed that.

[JeremyR]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

It's a figure of speech my friend, I'm not literally going to take a gun to my head... you don't have to worry I enjoy riding motorcycles and fun cars so a SUV is basically that last type of vehicle I would choose for my mode of transportation.

Honestly if my commute was less than 10 minutes via car I'd much rather just ride a bicycle. Does that make me sound insecure too?

Okay good, for a minute there I thought you were gonna!

A bike ride would be nice but then I couldn't sleep in as late

Originally Posted by ermax

I think you need to look up the definition of the word insecure. Your use of it is way off.

Anyways, I don't NEED a sports car to make a long drive tolerable but I would RATHER drive a sports car in literally any circumstance (even stop and go traffic) over a big heavy SUV that drives like a tank. I used to have 900lbs/1200lbs springs on my Integra and still DDed that.

my suv is a ford escape, not a suburban. it's quite small and nimble. and probably faster than an integra.
Edit: 0-6 times are about the same except for the gs-r.

i don't care what car people drive, but you can't convince me a sports car is better suited for daily driving than an suv.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by JeremyR

my suv is a ford escape, not a suburban. it's quite small and nimble. and probably faster than an integra.

i don't care what car people drive, but you can't convince me a sports car is better suited for daily driving than an suv.

My old Integra (95 GS-R) with very minimal engine mods (CAI, LWF and distributor set to 18btdc) ran a 14.26 1320. Not particularly fast but I'd be amazed if the Ford Escape was that fast. Oh and I remember going to pick up xmas trees with the Integra and when the guys were ready to take it to the car they would ask which car I was in. I would point to the Integra and they would laugh. We would get over there and I would throw it in there and completely close the hatch. Hahaha

It really depends on your needs I guess. I am a software dev so it isn't like I need to lug around tools or a bunch of passengers. But the parking lot at my office is littered with SUVs for a bunch of people that also don't have tool boxes or large families. If I NEEDED an SUV that is one thing. But if I had the option to drive to work in my FRS or the Suburban I would pick the FRS. I would pick the FRS over an Escape too. Again because I have no need for all the extra space. When you look at the segment the FRS falls in it is one of the more practical cars. It has reasonable trunk space, back seats and gets really good gas mileage. I think that is everyone's point.

[JeremyR]

Originally Posted by ermax

My old Integra (95 GS-R) with very minimal engine mods (CAI, LWF and distributor set to 18btdc) ran a 14.26 1320. Not particularly fast but I'd be amazed if the Ford Escape was that fast. Oh and I remember going to pick up xmas trees with the Integra and when the guys were ready to take it to the car they would ask which car I was in. I would point to the Integra and they would laugh. We would get over there and I would throw it in there and completely close the hatch. Hahaha

It really depends on your needs I guess. I am a software dev so it isn't like I need to lug around tools or a bunch of passengers. But the parking lot at my office is littered with SUVs for a bunch of people that also don't have tool boxes or large families. If I NEEDED an SUV that is one thing. But if I had the option to drive to work in my FRS or the Suburban I would pick the FRS. I would pick the FRS over an Escape too. Again because I have no need for all the extra space. When you look at the segment the FRS falls in it is one of the more practical cars. It has reasonable trunk space, back seats and gets really good gas mileage. I think that is everyone's point.

Man you're crazy, i'd never put a tree on my car, let alone IN it lol

I do wish my dd got as good gas mileage as the brz, but my commute short it makes up for it. I am constantly hauling shit though, so the space is much needed over the brz