KPower Industries K24 swap

[captain awesome]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I would have done this too if I had kept those components and thought it was going to matter. I could have welded it up myself pretty easy, so bummer. I will loosen the solid mounts for the shifter and see if it makes a difference. I had the transmission insert, and it definitely increased NVH, but it was very small to me, and I liked the sound it made, as it sounded like a dog box, but the volume wasn't 8-10, but 2-3, so it was totally, totally tolerable, and like I said, it added to the feel and race car. It didn't cause chassis vibration.

Here is another option if it is part of the problem: we could add some tall, rubber grommets under the hard mounting points, so it can move a little, or something like that. Just a thought.

I looked at what folks were doing with the IRP shifter and the general consensus was the "fix" of a rubber gasket and nylon washers didn't help much. With it being mounted to the chassis there isn't much isolation that can be done, but maybe there is still some options? I figure at this point I can try chopping up the stock shifter assembly and see if it works as I never really hated how it felt to begin with in stock configuration. The current Kpower one is super crisp and feels great, so I may find myself switching back regardless.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by captain awesome

I looked at what folks were doing with the IRP shifter and the general consensus was the "fix" of a rubber gasket and nylon washers didn't help much. With it being mounted to the chassis there isn't much isolation that can be done, but maybe there is still some options? I figure at this point I can try chopping up the stock shifter assembly and see if it works as I never really hated how it felt to begin with in stock configuration. The current Kpower one is super crisp and feels great, so I may find myself switching back regardless.

Gaskets and nylon washers don't do anything for movement. They really only protect paint surfaces from rubbing. The piece with be virtually locked into position with either of those. I mean to use a tall grommet like the one below with a bolt passing through with the use of a nylon lock washer to hold them down, but the combination needs to be loose enough to allow for vibration in the shifter itself. Either way, there will be movement. Either the movement will transfer into the chassis if it is hard mounted, or there will be movement and vibration at the shifter.

I don't think this is my source of noise and vibration. I will just unbolt the hard mounts and idle the car or drive it in first around and see if it makes a difference, but my guess for now is that it won't. If it does then I think the rubber grommets could help.

I tend to rest my hand on my shifter, but if that starts vibrating like crazy then that isn't ideal either.



Here are two sound clips. Listen with nice headphones and not on a phone to actually hear what the sound is. The engine video doesn't really show much vibration. I set my wrist on the chassis, which causes the video to shake towards the end. That is the best I can do to show the vibration, but it isn't like the whole motor is shaking. The other noises are just the clicking of the injectors and the exhaust. The movement of the pipes is good and that small contact on the driver's side of the IC pipe isn't an issue; it sounds loud, but I have some silicone rubber wrapped around the pipe, and it isn't making noise during movement.

The interior is more obvious, and you can see the vibration to the mirror, but it doesn't translate well on video. I don't know if the camera is doing image stabilization. It sounds like a point of contact, but I just am not know where, as I have checked the exhaust, transmission and engine, and I can't find it yet, but this could totally be a me thing and not a Kpower thing, so hold off on judgment.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1MkV...ew?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1sR9...ew?usp=sharing

[captain awesome]

Your interior noise is similar to mine. It comes and goes on certain items vibrating either in the dash or even the plastic trim of the passenger seat. I plan to remove both pieces of the dash and begin wrapping any clips or areas where they may rattle with some felt tape. I also plan to get some dampening material for the rest. My mirror doesn't move that I can tell but depending on rev range the frequency moves the rattle noise around the dash or console.


I dropped by the driveshaft shop and hopefully will have a quote for cost and time by tomorrow afternoon with a finished product within a few days. I don't think it has anything to do with what you are chasing down but hopefully addresses the vibes from 3k-4k under load. This weekend I plan to remove the Whiteline bushing and see what difference that makes as well.

[captain awesome]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Gaskets and nylon washers don't do anything for movement. They really only protect paint surfaces from rubbing. The piece with be virtually locked into position with either of those. I mean to use a tall grommet like the one below with a bolt passing through with the use of a nylon lock washer to hold them down, but the combination needs to be loose enough to allow for vibration in the shifter itself. Either way, there will be movement. Either the movement will transfer into the chassis if it is hard mounted, or there will be movement and vibration at the shifter.

That looks doable without too much expense or effort. I don't think I want to hog out the holes on the Kpower plate yet though. Once I get a few more measurements taken and a plan started the stock modified one should be a simple solution. The question remains if I can pull it off.

[alex87f]

That definitely sounds like a deep engine noise. Maybe investigating that exhaust mount is a good idea.

What type of bushings is the kit using? Any flex capability built into the exhaust? Anyone you know has a stock-ish K24 you could touch while running to confirm whether the noise is coming from inside the engine?

[captain awesome]

Originally Posted by alex87f

That definitely sounds like a deep engine noise. Maybe investigating that exhaust mount is a good idea.

What type of bushings is the kit using? Any flex capability built into the exhaust? Anyone you know has a stock-ish K24 you could touch while running to confirm whether the noise is coming from inside the engine?

I think Irace has a custom mount but the Kpower one has a rubber isolation hanger that attaches at the trans where the stock bracket for the front pipe normally bolts to. I'm not sure what you could do that could reduce any vibe input any further though.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by alex87f

That definitely sounds like a deep engine noise. Maybe investigating that exhaust mount is a good idea.

What type of bushings is the kit using? Any flex capability built into the exhaust? Anyone you know has a stock-ish K24 you could touch while running to confirm whether the noise is coming from inside the engine?

I reused the stock hard mount hanger.

I’ll let you guys know what I find Thursday, but I don’t think it is a mechanical problem with the motor. Lack of balancing shafts, yes, but not mechanical problems. Everything was great for compression, wear, etc, and that just isn’t my suspicion.

I was also going to ask about steering. The steering feels heavier at low speeds. Is it just me? I’m fine without much power assistance, but I just wanted to know if I was the only one.

[captain awesome]

So tonight I wanted to do a couple things. First was check for rattles or buzzing noises under the car. I found the fiber undertray is pressed up against the bellhousing adapter so I relief cut to keep it from rubbing. I don't think that was the issue but certainly something to consider.


I spent some time measuring how much lower and further back the trans mount moved. Just taking notes for cutting up the stock shifter assembly. Looks like it's lowered 1 1/4" and 5 1/2" back from stock. I think I've got a plan of attack to cut and weld but have a temp test solution in mind before gluing it all together permanently.



Next I wanted to swap out my spare trans mount to pull the one with the Whiteline bushing. I ended up having to remove the mid pipe to get it out but it wasn't too difficult. So just a stock trans mount is in place now. No more poly bushing.



Then on to a test ride.



It's a different car. Like completely, and very close to stock again!



There is still some drivetrain noise and some vibration through the shifter but a HUGE amount of vibration has been reduced when in motion. I can place my hand on the trans tunnel and it's considerably smoother than before. I still have the vibration I think is attributed to driveshaft around 3-4k RPM but the majority of buzzing in the interior is gone. There is also still some vibration at idle but even that seems to be lessened.



Speaking of driveshafts, I should have a shortened one ready to pick up in a few days. Because the front U-joint can't be rebuilt stock and the way it needed to be shortened the front yoke had to be replaced with a new serviceable one. Cost before tax is $295. Really hoping this helps even further.


So short story long I would try removing the Whiteline bushing before doing anything else and see how much that reduces the vibes. I'll have my drive to and from work tomorrow to confirm it's still all gravy but seems unlikely to creep back up out of nowhere. Also worth noting the shifter is a little more vague than with the bushing but honestly not that bad at all.

[Irace86.2.0]

Kpower said that we "needed" to use the Whiteline transmission bushing. Maybe the bushing transferred vibrations into the chassis, but could it be protecting the transmission internals? Like if the transmission twists under load because the bushing doesn't dampen that then could the hard mounted shifter make the shift rod going into the transmission twist in a bad way that breaks something or damages seals or bearings or something? That is my only concern.

I had the bushing in before this swap, so I can't imagine it would make such a difference unless the hard mounted shifter creates a synergistic effect, something greater than the some of the two parts, but I'll definitely look into all of these things.

[captain awesome]

I really don’t know why they say it’s a must. Does IRP or CAE require a more solid mount?


EDIT:


My drive to work was much more pleasant. However the trans is moving enough on heavily loaded left turns now that is is touching the trans tunnel. A little more clearance should do the trick, and it must just be barely touching so I may just move the trans mount to the driver side a hair until I can get under there with a sledge again.

[captain awesome]

I think I found a middle ground for the trans bushing. Just ordered an STI trans mount which should help firm things up without near as much NVH. At least that's my theory.

[redlined600]

Originally Posted by captain awesome

Speaking of driveshafts, I should have a shortened one ready to pick up in a few days. Because the front U-joint can't be rebuilt stock and the way it needed to be shortened the front yoke had to be replaced with a new serviceable one. Cost before tax is $295. Really hoping this helps even further.

I'm very interested in your results as shortening the stock driveshaft was my first option.

[RedReplicant]

Originally Posted by redlined600

I'm very interested in your results as shortening the stock driveshaft was my first option.

Agreed. I'll probably go this route since I am guessing the lead time on these kits is absurd right now. Time to burn.

I ordered a couple of weeks ago.

[Swift]

If you are running the aluminum flywheel you should be running a Fluiddamper or something.