Harrop TVS86 Owners Thread

[Kodename47]

Originally Posted by itschris

Speaking of, when you have multiple tunes w/ Ecutek does switching between them also switch the CVN? And if the first tune is selected, does having a second tune also available effect the CVN when the first is selected?

CVN?

There is one map on the ECU, even for EcuTek. No different to stock. They've just hacked the operation to allow some settings to be varied between some new map tables.

[Kodename47]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

https://datazap.me/u/jirace/more-log...-30&zoom=0-158

Same thing:

Exactly. On all PD SC's that I've seen, I doubt you'd get near 5v on the MAF. Remember that the scale is exponential so as you get higher into the volt range the g/s output increases alot. On my Sprintex on a 70mm pulley I am not even at 4.6v. I just think that MAP tuning is quicker as you don't have to account for sensor and intake variations that will impact MAF tuning. But if you dial in the MAF and do a true custom tune then there is nothing to say a MAP tune is better. SD is inherently less accurate than MAF, it just allows a greater range of control. I use the MAF as the basis (or part basis) for my custom mapped fuel smoothing, as you can see it works well - it just requires work.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by itschris

Speaking of, when you have multiple tunes w/ Ecutek does switching between them also switch the CVN? And if the first tune is selected, does having a second tune also available effect the CVN when the first is selected?

Originally Posted by Kodename47

CVN?

There is one map on the ECU, even for EcuTek. No different to stock. They've just hacked the operation to allow some settings to be varied between some new map tables.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130030

I don’t know if having multiple tunes can be detected or whether they can tell if you are on the wrong tune; ie, if they can tell if you are on a custom tune instead of the CARB tune. I have a DT with 4 maps, so for instance, I don’t know if I try to smog the car if it will fail unless I load up the CARB tune.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86

Yes, that's pretty close to what I was thinking of.

I’m pretty sure that you would have to buy in bulk from them. Pressure is far less on a boosted motor than on a fluid pump where they were hitting 100psi, so maybe less modulation is equally as effective?

The problem is the setup. We would either need to buy a block off plate and drill n tap a new bung, or we would have to find a MAP sensor male adapter to NPT then run a line to a remote MAP sensor female adapter with an inline filter.

[itschris]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

CVN?

There is one map on the ECU, even for EcuTek. No different to stock. They've just hacked the operation to allow some settings to be varied between some new map tables.

That makes sense, I should have looked into this more. I guess that implies a single CVN for all maps.

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130030

I don’t know if having multiple tunes can be detected or whether they can tell if you are on the wrong tune; ie, if they can tell if you are on a custom tune instead of the CARB tune. I have a DT with 4 maps, so for instance, I don’t know if I try to smog the car if it will fail unless I load up the CARB tune.

Starting back in June or so CA smog shops will verify the CalID + CVN combination against an accepted list. If the CalID + CVN doesn't match, the smog shop will direct you to a state ref.

Products with EO#s that include tunes are required to submit the corresponding CalID + CVN(s) to the BAR. It does sound like loading the CARB tune would be required but I guess we'll see some posts soon enough as cars near 8 years old.

[FR-S2GT86]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

I’m pretty sure that you would have to buy in bulk from them. Pressure is far less on a boosted motor than on a fluid pump where they were hitting 100psi, so maybe less modulation is equally as effective?

The problem is the setup. We would either need to buy a block off plate and drill n tap a new bung, or we would have to find a MAP sensor male adapter to NPT then run a line to a remote MAP sensor female adapter with an inline filter.

100 psi, 10 psi, you can see that their gauges go down to 0 psig and up to 300 psig, a pulsation is a pulsation. Water, air, they’re both fluids, and with the exception of liquids not easily compressing, they will both act similarly.

I don’t think we would have to make any modifications to the supercharger at all. We just need to find the right materials and adapter fittings to fit. I’m going to start working on this. I can probably source all of the components needed close to me. I’ll test it using two of these:



One gauge right out of the MAP sensor pressure port on the supercharger, then through the dampener to the other gauge right at the MAP sensor. I’ll post my results but I may create a new thread dedicated to this project

I see no reason why this shouldn’t work. And if it’s less than the cost of a D-Box, then it will will pay off in the end. Remember that the D-Box needs to also be tuned into the ECU to function properly. This won’t have to be.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by FR-S2GT86

100 psi, 10 psi, you can see that their gauges go down to 0 psig and up to 300 psig, a pulsation is a pulsation. Water, air, they’re both fluids, and with the exception of liquids not easily compressing, they will both act similarly.



I don’t think we would have to make any modifications to the supercharger at all. We just need to find the right materials and adapter fittings to fit. I’m going to start working on this. I can probably source all of the components needed close to me. I’ll test it using two of these:



Attachment 193407



One gauge right out of the MAP sensor pressure port on the supercharger, then through the dampener to the other gauge right at the MAP sensor. I’ll post my results but I may create a new thread dedicated to this project



I see no reason why this shouldn’t work. And if it’s less than the cost of a D-Box, then it will will pay off in the end. Remember that the D-Box needs to also be tuned into the ECU to function properly. This won’t have to be.

1) It's damping, not dampening. You're not making it wet, your slowing the rate of change in a system.

2) You can accomplish the exact same thing with a basic needle valve. As it would need to be mounted to a car and you wouldn't want it to rattle, a pneumatic flow control valve that can be locked in position would be perfect. Something like this would likely be perfect for a remote mounted MAP sensor. https://www.grainger.com/mobile/prod...fc=MWP2IDP2PCP

But even just a remote mounted MAP sensor with a few feet of tubing would probably give enough damping to fix the issue.

Alternatively, while I haven't seen the dbox, I've filtered noise from control signals in the electronic realm as well. A simple first order low pass filter set to filter above say 400Hz would likely be sufficient. You can find calculators online easy enough.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by itschris

That makes sense, I should have looked into this more. I guess that implies a single CVN for all maps.



Starting back in June or so CA smog shops will verify the CalID + CVN combination against an accepted list. If the CalID + CVN doesn't match, the smog shop will direct you to a state ref.

Products with EO#s that include tunes are required to submit the corresponding CalID + CVN(s) to the BAR. It does sound like loading the CARB tune would be required but I guess we'll see some posts soon enough as cars near 8 years old.

Good to know.

I have to remove my ace header n flex fuel n swap pullies. What is the difference between swapping injectors and reflashing a tune? Better than having to completely remove and install the entire supercharger and reinstall the stock stuff too.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Calum

1) It's damping, not dampening. You're not making it wet, your slowing the rate of change in a system.

2) You can accomplish the exact same thing with a basic needle valve. As it would need to be mounted to a car and you wouldn't want it to rattle, a pneumatic flow control valve that can be locked in position would be perfect. Something like this would likely be perfect for a remote mounted MAP sensor. https://www.grainger.com/mobile/prod...fc=MWP2IDP2PCP

But even just a remote mounted MAP sensor with a few feet of tubing would probably give enough damping to fix the issue.

Alternatively, while I haven't seen the dbox, I've filtered noise from control signals in the electronic realm as well. A simple first order low pass filter set to filter above say 400Hz would likely be sufficient. You can find calculators online easy enough.

1) I think dampening works. Just saying.

2) I like the idea of mechanical dampening. While a two foot tube could work to alter or disrupt the resonance, it seems like the waves could still propagate down the tube, no different than an instrument.

[FR-S2GT86]

Originally Posted by Calum

1) It's damping, not dampening. You're not making it wet, your slowing the rate of change in a system.

2) You can accomplish the exact same thing with a basic needle valve. As it would need to be mounted to a car and you wouldn't want it to rattle, a pneumatic flow control valve that can be locked in position would be perfect. Something like this would likely be perfect for a remote mounted MAP sensor. https://www.grainger.com/mobile/prod...fc=MWP2IDP2PCP

But even just a remote mounted MAP sensor with a few feet of tubing would probably give enough damping to fix the issue.

Alternatively, while I haven't seen the dbox, I've filtered noise from control signals in the electronic realm as well. A simple first order low pass filter set to filter above say 400Hz would likely be sufficient. You can find calculators online easy enough.

Yeah, I've seen dampener and damper used synonymously.



(Trying not to make the "Grammar Nazi" comment.)........Whoops, did I say that out loud?



In all seriousness, I'm sure there's a few ways to smooth the pulsations, each with their different advantages and disadvantages. Experimentation will lead to results.

[Xero-Limit]

Hey folks...we've had lots of customers asking us and we're now stocking the pulleys here locally. https://www.xero-limit.com/harrop-su...ulleys-86.html is the link, stock varies but we have a few currently.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Xero-Limit

Hey folks...we've had lots of customers asking us and we're now stocking the pulleys here locally. https://www.xero-limit.com/harrop-su...ulleys-86.html is the link, stock varies but we have a few currently.

Is 91 low quality fuel? Or would you recommend the 90mm to give a little more on quality 91 fuel?

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Calum

Is 91 low quality fuel? Or would you recommend the 90mm to give a little more on quality 91 fuel?

91 is low quality. I ran 91 with the 85mm for a while before getting E85. The car wasn’t happy like it was on E85, especially on hot days. Timing was noticeably pulled. 90mm is probably max on 91 crap premium, which is all we have. Wish we had super premium here aka 93. Wish we had E85 locally too. Hopefully we get a station here soon.

[FR-S2GT86]

My naturally aspirated baseline dyno runs were 166 HP at the rear wheels. All I've ever filled up with is 93 octane since I purchased my car just over a year ago.

I'll get it dyno'd again after the Harrop kit with CARB tune installed with 93 octane, then again after the installation of the 85 mm pulley and the remaining parts of my build on E-85.