Transmission noise

[MyGT86Yas]

Decided to put the whole story here.
First want to clarify a few things.
I'm from here so I'm trying my best to describe the noise I heard.
This post is about my experience with my 86 which I bought in November 2017, so yes it's gonna be subjective.
It's my DD and I commute to work every day (~80 miles drive per day).
From time to time I would go to the canyon to have some fun drive but NEVER do burnout or abuse my car.
This car is not my first manual and I'm confident to say I know how to drive a stick.
So here is my story:

At around 5,000 miles on the car, I noticed something wrong with the car and here are the problems:
1) When I shifted from 1st to 2nd or from 2nd to 3rd, the shifter popped out
2) Sometimes when the car were at speed, I could't change gear even though the clutch was fully depressed (example: rolling toward a stop sign and tried to shift into 1st at 5 mph)
3) When accelerate slowly from still, the back of the engine/ transmission area would make some "Dadadada" noise (example: hit a plastic handhold fan with your finger tip)
4) When accelerate from cruising, the back of the engine/ transmission would make some "clicking" noise for about half a second then it will go away, and it occurs more often when the car is warm (example: engine noise from an old car, like it has not lubrication)
So I dropped off my car at the dealership in Ontario, CA couple times and the master tech decided to take the transmission off to have a look.
He found that there is wear on bearings and the spring is loose, and he believes the loose spring was the cause of all problems
The parts he replaced:
SU003-00803 Fork, Clutch Release
SU003-07349 Bearing, Release
SU003-00805 Support, Release Fork
SU003-00806 Clip
SU003-00804 Spring
SU003-00799 Disk Compl-Clutch
After the repair, I noticed a HUGE improvement on shifting. No more shifter popping out or tough shifting when car was at speed.
So problem 1,2,3 were solve, but problem number 4 didn't go away.

At about 15,000 miles, I noticed there was a new problem:
5) Loud noise when the car was in gear and speed, and I release the gas pedal (example: the noise and movement you will hear/feel when driving in 1st gear, like the engine is moving forth and back)
I think it's getting louder than before so I dropped my car off again and also ask them to check on the problem 4 noise.
The technician believed that the problem 5 noise was a sign of fault transmission and decided to replace my transmission.
Side note: the funny thing is later on I test drove a new 86 and the new car was actually making the same noise
He told me that the problem 4 noise could also come from transmission.
After the transmission replacement, everything got way WORSE.
Problem 1-3 came back, problem 4-5 didn't go away, and I found something new ( or I think it was a problem):
6) When clutch is fully depressed and I shift into gear from neutral normally, I could feel resistance
7) When clutch is fully depressed and I shifted into gear slowly, the gears are grinding
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfJ68LpqMB8"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfJ68LpqMB8[/ame]

I tried to ask the foreman about it and he basically told me the noise is normal and he didn't want to spend more time to find a solution for problem 4

At around 20,000 miles, I felt like I should get everything sorted before the warranty expire (later I was told the transmission is warranted until 60k).
So I dropped off my car at a dealership in Orange, CA and asked them to work on it.
Took them a week to inspect and wait for the FTS to test drive it.
After a week I was told they couldn't duplicate the noise and I had to go in person to test drive with the shop foreman.
The shop foreman told me the grinding is normal and that's how transmission functions (honestly still not very convinced about it)
But he found the problem 4 noise weird, and he thought a new clutch would resolve the problem.
So they kept the car for another to order the parts and replace them. After the second week got a call from the foreman.
And he told me the clutch didn't fix the noise and they wanted to take longer time to inspect it and potentially pull the engine out to see if it was a fault engine.
Waited couple days and got a call back. The shop foreman was able to duplicate the noise consistently and he recorded it and sent the video to Toyota.
Toyota asked them to do a few more testing before pulling out the engine, they did but found nothing, and Toyota gave them authorization to pull the engine out, tear it apart, and inspect it.
After talking to the foreman, I decided it's time to proceed with the lemon law and filed a case with Toyota.

On 10/3/2017, I called the foreman and he told me that they didn't find anything conclusive, but they believe it's a fault engine and they are going to replace the whole engine.
On 10/4/2017, I was told that the engine was shipped and I should have my car back by next week, but no they are not sure the new engine will fix it.

Things that I'm very certain about:
SU003-00804 Spring fixed the shifting problem at the 1st repair
Both the shop foreman and Toyota Corporate found the problem 4 noise weird and may potentially be a sign of a fault engine
They rather put in something new than tear it apart and find out what is wrong, and that's why i got a new transmission and engine

[Ultramaroon]

That noise is the gears grinding. You've figured out how to slip past the blocking ring without engaging the gear.

[MyGT86Yas]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

That noise is the gears grinding. You've figured out how to slip past the blocking ring without engaging the gear.

Not sure what you mean by "slip pass the blocking ring", did you mean there should be a ring to prevent it to happen, or did you mean I break it? They recently replaced the transmission under warranty but I feel like the transmission problem got worse than before...

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by MyGT86Yas

Not sure what you mean by "slip pass the blocking ring", did you mean there should be a ring to prevent it to happen, or did you mean I break it? They recently replaced the transmission under warranty but I feel like the transmission problem got worse than before...

The blocking ring is the part of the syncro which is what most people call the syncro. Do a google image search on "blocking ring" or "balk ring." Below is a picture of a transmission from 1939. The principle has not changed at all. That thing in between the blocking rings is what slides back and forth to change gears. As it sits in this photo, it's in neutral.



The gear synchronizer is a pretty complicated mechanism. Shifting into gear is actually a two-step process. In the first step, you are pushing the syncro sleeve against the blocking ring which is actually one side of a little clutch. (in the functional sense, not the clutch between the engine and transmission) The other side of the clutch is the gear itself.

So when you push against the blocking ring, it "blocks" the sleeve from engaging the gear until they are no longer spinning relative to each other. Then, when both sides match, it lets the sleeve pass through.

If you shift too slowly or gently, you can match up and just get past the blocking ring. Then, because you are no longer applying pressure, it can no longer do its job as a clutch to hold the two sides in place. That's when you get the classic "grinding the gears."

If you have a new transmission, your concern makes sense. Many of us have noticed that the "clutching" or "blocking" action (whatever that's called. iono) of the syncros take a looooong time to break in. My shifting was crunchy and notchy for about 10,000 miles. No kidding. Lots of people get impatient and play with different fluids. That's why (IMHO) you see so many posts claiming the transmission sucked until they replaced the fluid and how brand Y is so much better than X...

When shifting, a "ker-plunk" little crunch is not necessarily a bad thing. Don't ease up on the gearshift halfway through because that's when you get the grind. If you miss the shift, pull back into neutral and go again in a full motion.

[MyGT86Yas]

Dropped my car off this morning at a different dealership around home. Apparently they don't think the noise is normal when we were test driving but they will need more time to diagnose the problem and will update me on Monday.


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[Ultramaroon]

Keep us posted.

[MyGT86Yas]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Keep us posted.

Will do.


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[FLESH KILLA]

I have the same issue/concern with 94600+ miles with factory trans fluid. Im not to well versed on transmissions, i just know it sucks when i grind gears after a smooth shift from one gear to another. Had toyota check the car on multiple occasions but they say its fine. Not too sure what to do at this point.

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[MyGT86Yas]

So they have to keep the car for longer until the regional manager visit their shop. Test drive with the technician today and he found the noises strange too. Will keep you guys posted.


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[chaoskaze]

Originally Posted by FLESH KILLA

I have the same issue/concern with 94600+ miles with factory trans fluid. Im not to well versed on transmissions, i just know it sucks when i grind gears after a smooth shift from one gear to another. Had toyota check the car on multiple occasions but they say its fine. Not too sure what to do at this point.

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put motul in it first.

[MyGT86Yas]

Update: Got a call from the dealership today and they told me the car was ready to pick up. Nothing wrong and no weird noises when the regional manager test drove it. Went to pick up my car and test drove a new 86, the foreman wasn't able to duplicate the noises and basically he said his hands are tied because Toyota has already replaced the transmission once and after that any repair will be up to the regional managers decision. After they rinsed my car we went to have a test drive on my car, and I was able to duplicate a clicking noise(whenever I accelerate from cruising at around 2500rpm) and he agrees that it's weird and will see if they can replace the clutch under warranty, but no guarantee. This foreman seems a lot more helpful than the one in Ontario, at least he would listen to what I say and wouldn't say the twins is "a sportcar that is supposed to make all kinds of noises"


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[Zentec]

Originally Posted by MyGT86Yas

Not sure what you mean by "slip pass the blocking ring", did you mean there should be a ring to prevent it to happen, or did you mean I break it? They recently replaced the transmission under warranty but I feel like the transmission problem got worse than before...

They already replaced your transmission? How many miles did you have on it when they replaced it and how many miles on the replaced transmission before you got the noise?

[MyGT86Yas]

Originally Posted by Zentec

They already replaced your transmission? How many miles did you have on it when they replaced it and how many miles on the replaced transmission before you got the noise?

It had about 20k miles when they replaced the transmission, and it started making noises right after the replacement.


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[Zentec]

Originally Posted by MyGT86Yas

It had about 20k miles when they replaced the transmission, and it started making noises right after the replacement.


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What happen that caused an transmission replacement at 20k?

Well they will cover anything related to it as they did the work and the work is under warranty. I hope it gets sorted soon for you.