Any predictions on how Subaru will differ from Toyota/Scion

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by dilly-o

yea, i agree with you that the could put any FB engine in there with or without direct injection. it just seems like they have made direct injection such a big part of the toyobaru's PR, how could they release a normal fuel injected version? plus, it would look bad for subaru to offer a base engine below Scion. Below Scion! think about that.

in theory at least, direct injection FB20 should have similar fuel economy as compared to a 'normal' FB20. so if CAFE/EPA was the motivation to offer a lesser engine, that does not compute. right?

so there's two reasons not to offer the 148HP engine: no fuel economy motive, and no motive to position your brand below freaking scion.

Price tag my friend. Just say SCION FR-S ver start around $20.5k vs Subie ver came out around $17.8k. (That's around base NA Impreza cost.) Now to some people who don't care bout hp or performance, which sounds good? 40~50 less hp, but get 5~10 more better mpg and cost $3~6k less Subie ver or Toyota ver?

Again, Toyota won't loose any $ from this either. Cuz both uses same chassis. Other stuff is pretty much same too just few cosmetic difference. So in my view it's still a win win situation for Toyota & Subaru.

[dilly-o]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Price tag my friend. Just say SCION FR-S ver start around $20.5k vs Subie ver came out around $17.8k. (That's around base NA Impreza cost.) Now to some people who don't care bout hp or performance, which sounds good? 40~50 less hp, but get 5~10 more better mpg and cost $3~6k less Subie ver or Toyota ver?

Again, Toyota won't loose any $ from this either. Cuz both uses same chassis. Other stuff is pretty much same too just few cosmetic difference. So in my view it's still a win win situation for Toyota & Subaru.

i just dont think subaru wants people to think of their car as "just like the scion, only cheaper and slower." that doesnt sound good to me. both of us like subaru, right? do we really want the subaru brand to be a cheaper, slower scion? i think the subaru marketing people would agree

also the fuel economy argument doesnt add up to me. take mazda for example, in the article linked to below. the 2011 engine was 2.0, 148 hp, 25 city/33 hwy. the new engine with DI is 2.0, 155 hp, 28 city/40 hwy. (note, there is also a new transmission, which helped as well) so DI provides more HP and better fuel economy. this may not be perfectly true for the toyobaru, but i dont see a fuel economy penalty for DI.

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/04/20/2...pdated-exteri/

but lets not waste too much internet bandwidth disagreeing with each other, because i like your style. we can agree to disagree if you wish.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

Headlights, tails, interior, bumpers. I don't see any discernible weight and much less so, power, difference.

Upgraded brakes? ROFL, gtfo... no. Any "differences" of that kind will cost you more, and will probably be available in the Toyota/scion version too.

GTFO.......

Power:
1991-1994 1G Eagle Talon TSI FWD manual= 190hp
1991-1994 1G Mitsubishi Eclipse GS-T manual= 195hp

2003-2005 Pontiac Vibe base= 126hp
2003-2005 Toyota Matrix=130hp

Weight:
2006 Pontiac Vibe base= 2700lbs
2006 Toyota Matrix Standard= 2679lbs

10kg difference right there

Pontiac Solstice= 2877lbs
Saturn Sky= 2940lbs/Open GT= 2934lbs

29kg difference right there


1996 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 (coupe)= 3760lbs
1996 Dodge Stealth R/T turbo (coupe)= 3671lbs

40kg difference right there


LMFAO/ROFL.....ROFL....

Listen you can try and ridicule people as much as you want, but at least try and back it up with some facts while you are at it?

You don't see any weight difference? How are you so sure. I just gave 3 examples of cars built off the same platform. Difference in weight ranges from 10-40kg. What is so unreasonable about that?

Power, same thing. I didn't say there would be 50-80hp difference. I just said 5-10hp which is reasonable if they come with different exhaust systems/ecu maps. Not completely out of the picture to get ~5-10hp difference.

I don't see any reason why the Subaru won't come with different brakes than the Toyota/Scion. I didn't say they would be a Brembo kit. I just said they would be upgraded stock. If the Subaru does indeed have a higher entry price point, you better believe it will come with "higher/better" specs compared to the entry Scion/Toyota. If they are the same price, that is a different story.

So in summary Matador, there are cars that differ in weight (Pontiac Solstice vs. Saturn Sky, your examples). There are also cars based off the same exact platform that differ in hp (Toyota Matrix vs. Pontiac Vibe, once again your examples).

So please don't come in here with a holier than thou attitude when the examples you gave proved my exact point!!! / rant.

[Snaps]

^ What is making some of you think that Subaru is a higher-end brand than Toyota? I think they're pretty well equal...

[dilly-o]

subaru is equal with toyota, but not scion IMO.

the two cars can be priced equally, id be fine with that (assuming the content/specs are the same). but i dont think subaru should be positioned below scion with lesser content features. thats all. if anything, scion should be the stripper version since that brand allegedly appeals to younger, less-affluent types.

[tranzformer]

Originally Posted by dilly-o

subaru is equal with toyota, but not scion IMO.

the two cars can be priced equally, id be fine with that (assuming the content/specs are the same). but i dont think subaru should be positioned below scion with lesser content features. thats all. if anything, scion should be the stripper version since that brand allegedly appeals to younger, less-affluent types.

+1.

I am speaking from the point of view as someone who lives in the US. Hence no Toyota version and only the Scion and Subaru version. Scion's whole mission is to sell cheap/entry level cars to generation Y that they can afford. Just look at Scion's lineup, all of their cars start underneath $20k with the mean around $17-18k. Then take a look at Subaru which goes all the way up to $37k for the STI.

[dilly-o]

Originally Posted by Snaps

^ What is making some of you think that Subaru is a higher-end brand than Toyota? I think they're pretty well equal...

oh, snaps, didnt notice you are from the land of the long white cloud in your bio. yeah, the dynamic is different here because of the scion thing. in NZ i imagine the content/pricing might be similar. besides, content often differs in different markets.

i spose we could discuss content/pricing differences in each market, but that would devolve into the realm of the preposterous pretty quick.

p.s. what part of NZ are you located? i used to live in wellington and hamilton.

[ichitaka05]

SCIOIN tC starts @ $18.9k while Subaru Impreza starts @ $17.4k

Also adding all the fun stuff to tC it goes over $35k

[Franisco]

Who the hell would pay $35k for a TC?

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Franisco

Who the hell would pay $35k for a TC?

My boss's daughter paid lil over $31k (well, she didn't paid, my boss paid) for new one. Full custom made from online.

[dilly-o]

you are comparing Scion's most expensive model to Subaru's cheapest model (thats sold in north america).

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by dilly-o

you are comparing Scion's most expensive model to Subaru's cheapest model (thats sold in north america).

I've compared w size & spec. Nothing to do w cheapest or expensive. Or do you want xB? That starts at $16.7. Less than $1k difference between xB & Impreza

Also chill out. It's just my prediction and it's not like it's gonna happen.

[Snaps]

Originally Posted by dilly-o

oh, snaps, didnt notice you are from the land of the long white cloud in your bio. yeah, the dynamic is different here because of the scion thing. in NZ i imagine the content/pricing might be similar. besides, content often differs in different markets.

i spose we could discuss content/pricing differences in each market, but that would devolve into the realm of the preposterous pretty quick.

p.s. what part of NZ are you located? i used to live in wellington and hamilton.

Yeah, that makes sense... different markets. But at the same time the FT86/FR-S all over the world should be very similar (i.e. cheap everywhere), so I doubt there is going to be much of a price difference just because it is marketed under Scion rather than Toyota? Edit: Take this point - if the tC or xB were marketed under Toyota in the US do any of you think the price would be much different?

I'm from Levin, in the Manawatu. Currently at Massey University in Palmy Nth.

I'd be happy to discuss/let you guys know the pricing when we get the prices here. Would be interesting to see the difference, and I highly suspect it to be much more expensive over here, just because every import seems to be.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Snaps

Yeah, that makes sense... different markets. But at the same time the FT86/FR-S all over the world should be very similar (i.e. cheap everywhere), so I doubt there is going to be much of a price difference just because it is marketed under Scion rather than Toyota? Edit: Take this point - if the tC or xB were marketed under Toyota in the US do any of you think the price would be much different?

I'm from Levin, in the Manawatu. Currently at Massey University in Palmy Nth.

I'd be happy to discuss/let you guys know the pricing when we get the prices here. Would be interesting to see the difference, and I highly suspect it to be much more expensive over here, just because every import seems to be.

Quick Q. Is there a Toyota Zelas selling over there and how much?