Any good reason to stick with 1st Gen?

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

I'm surprised so many people say they like the interior of the 1st gen.

The knobs on the A/C units were horrible. Looked horrible, felt even worse.
The knobs on the climate control unit were slightly better, but still felt cheap.
The toggles below the knobs were very flimsy.
I haven't touched the new knobs yet, but they sure look a lot nicer.
In fact, I think the new climate controls look really good IMO.

The rest of the 1st gen interior, even on 17+ models, was rattletown filled with crickets on most BRZ/86/Scions I've seen.
I once drove a brand new (~2000 miles) '17 Toyota 86 and the cricket somewhere around the middle vent drove me completely crazy.

I'm not too optimistic that the new interior is going to have the quality of an expensive Swiss watch, but from the looks of it, and most reviews, it actually feels nicer.
It might be stylistically more boring, but I don't really look at the interior much while I'm driving anyways.

Having a chance to sit in a Limited the other day, I was surprised how nice the interior felt.

The turn signal stalk feels premium, has a nice click to it (as opposed to the cheap crunch of the 1st gen).
A/C controls look premium and feel ok (still plastic, but finally decent one).
The A/C vents feel ok, and finally it looks like they aren't going to close themselves after driving over a random bump.
Even the cupholder area (which I really didn't like based on the videos) felt surprisingly nice.

The interior of a brand new 1st gen feels like it's 20+ years old, whereas the 2nd gen feels like a modern car that's decently well built (adequate for the price tag).

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

I'm surprised so many people say they like the interior of the 1st gen.

The knobs on the A/C units were horrible. Looked horrible, felt even worse.
The knobs on the climate control unit were slightly better, but still felt cheap.
The toggles below the knobs were very flimsy.
I haven't touched the new knobs yet, but they sure look a lot nicer.
In fact, I think the new climate controls look really good IMO.

The rest of the 1st gen interior, even on 17+ models, was rattletown filled with crickets on most BRZ/86/Scions I've seen.
I once drove a brand new (~2000 miles) '17 Toyota 86 and the cricket somewhere around the middle vent drove me completely crazy.

I'm not too optimistic that the new interior is going to have the quality of an expensive Swiss watch, but from the looks of it, and most reviews, it actually feels nicer.
It might be stylistically more boring, but I don't really look at the interior much while I'm driving anyways.

Originally Posted by timurrrr

For the "enthusiast"? Seriously?
IMO the base A/C control modules is one of the worst things they did with the 1st gen, along the horrible radio.
They made the radio less horrible as years went by, but the base A/C they kept available all the way until 2020...

Also FYI, there are markets where only the dual-zone option was available.

Who cares about A/C and radio? You don't need them when you have opened windows and hear real exhaust sound

[Varelco]

Originally Posted by ZDan

981S is the one, as far as Caymans go, but don't discount the "base" non-S version, it's pretty much the same car with a bit less hp...

BUT, they still look and *feel* biggish and heavyish relative to an FT86! The 981's electric steering is good but *slow* relative to FT86. And Porsche seems to make it a design goal to make their cars feel as boring as possible at anything under 8/10ths whereas the Ft86 is *fun* at 1/10th just tooling around!

981 Cayman S is just a few mods away from being a legit budget supercar. But our cars are more fun on the street

Something to think about...

Originally Posted by Ernest72

I know what you mean. I’ve read a lot about them and many people who have driven both prefer the twins because of fun. I would pull the trigger and try it if the 981S was around 35k. They are around 50k. Just seems like too much. So I keep saving. A few have said to get the base because you can ring it out more on the street. Another thing to think about.

Add me to that camp.

I was utterly convinced that a 981 Cayman was the next step up for me. It has raving reviews, great handling, awesome engine. I went and test drove one last week, perfect spec, the engine and gearbox were absolutely sublime, it was so well finished and put together, it looked incredible too I couldn't fault it really, so I put a deposit down.

Aaaaaand then roll on a week later I decided to get it back again... I came to the realisation that it wasn't all that fun, I mean it was superior in nearly every every aspect to a twin yet it was boring. I also found it felt big on the road and heavier despite that not really being the case. You are cocooned inside a well made, well insulated cabin, the dashboard is large and elevated, the door cards are high leaving you with small windows, that isolates you from the whole experience, its equipped with 265 section rear tyres, there is so much mechanical grip and rubber it simply didn't move. I couldn't point it so directly into a corner with the nimbleness and precious like a twin. All this for x2.5 times the cost.

In a weird way the downfalls of a twins are also its positives. So its left me stumped, it seems to me the only really candidate is a new GR/BRZ. I can understand why people have so much trouble trying to find the perfect replacement for a twin, its wedged in between the rawness of something like a Lotus but the day to day comfort of a Porsche, albeit with compromise but a lot less money.

[Ernest72]

I am worried I will feel the same way. So for now I save.

Maybe a 987.2 because it’s more raw.

[Varelco]

987.2 is supposed to be much more analogue/raw but its also quite an old design now and I've been keen on the looks.

[Ernest72]

Originally Posted by Varelco

987.2 is supposed to be much more analogue/raw but its also quite an old design now and I've been keen on the looks.

I think the new twin is a great option. I would do it if I did not have my 16 BRZ.

The 987.2 would likely need more money into it, to make it what I you want. It’s a good dilemma to have. I will continue to save and make a decision next year. The problem with waiting is I get ideas for putting money into my BRZ and WRX because of this mod addiction. And I really just want to maintain them because they are a lot of fun as is. Putting snows on the WRX this weekend. Can’t wait for that first snow, although it could be awhile.

[ZDan]

987.2 is boring to drive on the street vs. BRZ. I drove both on the street and at the track for a year, idea being to keep the one I liked better overall. I kept the BRZ and it was no contest. Cayman just wasn't as fun and engaging as the BRZ on the street. I actually prefer 981 steering over 987, slightly quicker ratio. But prefer BRZ's even quicker linear steering over either of the Porsches.

[TommyW]

I would equate the question to which do you prefer, an air cooled or water cooled 911. The water cooled ones are more refined however the air cooled ones are more raw to some extent.

I haven't driven a Gen 2 so I'm going off of other people's reviews and comments. A well sorted G1 is an awesome car.

[WolfpackS2k]

I wouldn't recommend a Porsche to anyone if they have any plans to expertly track them (that being, knows that they're doing on track and isn't just cruising around). I paid the price of a destroyed engine from track use, and since my incident have been hearing from A LOT of other Porsche owners with the same problems. Unless it's a Turbo or GT3 model, the modern water cooled Porsche engines aren't designed for repeated track use.

And that'd be okay if it didn't cost a fortune to replace/rebuild the engine.

Don't do it.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I wouldn't recommend a Porsche to anyone if they have any plans to expertly track them (that being, knows that they're doing on track and isn't just cruising around). I paid the price of a destroyed engine from track use, and since my incident have been hearing from A LOT of other Porsche owners with the same problems. Unless it's a Turbo or GT3 model, the modern water cooled Porsche engines aren't designed for repeated track use.

997.2+ and 987.2+ addressed the poor engine oiling issues and eliminated the stupid intermediate shaft. Stay far away from earlier M96 and M97 Porsches...

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by ZDan

997.2+ and 987.2+ addressed the poor engine oiling issues and eliminated the stupid intermediate shaft. Stay far away from earlier M96 and M97 Porsches...

The IMS issue was an issue however not as prevalent as some believe. Anyone buying a non Metzger pre '10 model can budget in 3K or so for an upgrade for piece of mind.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by ZDan

997.2+ and 987.2+ addressed the poor engine oiling issues and eliminated the stupid intermediate shaft. Stay far away from earlier M96 and M97 Porsches...

It's the price you have to pay going with older models. You will not get the latest fixes ...

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by ZDan

997.2+ and 987.2+ addressed the poor engine oiling issues and eliminated the stupid intermediate shaft. Stay far away from earlier M96 and M97 Porsches...

Oh I'm well aware. And I say stay away from the 9A1 engine as well.

As a reminder (it's found in my thread) my engine failure had nothing to do with IMS.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by TommyW

The IMS issue was an issue however not as prevalent as some believe. Anyone buying a non Metzger pre '10 model can budget in 3K or so for an upgrade for piece of mind.

~10% failure rate at 90k miles for the worst years ('00-'05). But yeah, there are measures that can be taken to prevent failure which are *highly* recommended!

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Oh I'm well aware. And I say stay away from the 9A1 engine as well.

OK, but they are much more reliable vs. M96/M97. Particularly if there's track usage.

As a reminder (it's found in my thread) my engine failure had nothing to do with IMS.

'05+ were a big improvement with the bigger bearing. Failures not unheard of but much more rare. Still had major oiling issues though. And bore-scoring. And D-chunk.

Of course I went out of my way to get a 987.2, with a manual transmission instead of PDK for "no worries". Then I had to replace the transmission. Ouch...