follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Engine, Exhaust, Transmission

Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-31-2021, 10:01 PM   #1
jrhudson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Drives: 2016 scion frs
Location: ca
Posts: 191
Thanks: 105
Thanked 69 Times in 49 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Valve clearances on built block

Hello,

I am currently assembly an IAG stage one block with my machined heads by IAG, as well.

I have the LH heads on my block, and I checked the valve clearances after i torqued down the cam caps.

Intake: .08mm, .13mm, .08mm,.08mm

Exhaust: all .18mm

The OEM specs on the shop manual are:
Intake .10mm- .15mm
Exhaust .20nm-.25mm

A bit confused. I know that the shims/buckets need to be change but i dont understand how the labeling for the shims are.

UPDATE:
okay so i have figured it out. thanks to @NoHaveMSG and @bobel. I wanted to give some updates and try to simplify to process. this isn't a guide, this is just some tips or pointers or anything that i didnt know beforehand about valve clearances for FA20s. @bobel's thread should have most of the info there.

You need to change the shims to the correct value. There are numbers of the side of the shims that correspond to the thickness they are.
To get your correct valve clearances, you must time the motor and crank it a few times. Reason being, if you have heads that was machined at all or the valves that were replaced, the valves won't be seated in their final position until you crank the motor a few times. I did this without the motor being timed, and the clearances changed the next day by 0.2mm+/-. After i timed the motor and cranked the engine, the clearances would stay the same.

After you get your measurements and shim numbers, in the service manual, there's formulas to use to determine what shims you need based on the clearances and the numbers on the side of the shims.

Intake formula
A =B+(C - D) x 1.54

A - what shim # you need
B - what shim # you have
C - valve clearance you have
D - target valve clearance

Example) A=2.36 + ( 0.06 - .15) x 1.54

B - 236 shim i have , so it means 2.36mm
C - .06mm of clearances on that valve
D - target of .15mm clearance

A= 2.36 + (-0.09) x 1.54
A= 2.36 + (-0.1386)
A= 2.2214
A= 222 shim required for .15mm clearance on that valve.

Exhaust formula is the same but you multiply by 1.69.

Exhaust formula

A= B + (C - D) x 1.69


Edit 2: i assembled everything properly up to the cams and cap caps. I didnt apply silicone to the cam caps when mocking up to check clearances. Just to be clear.



Edit 3: just in case someone wanted to see what measurements and shims i got. 2nd numbers and mm are what i got after final valve checking.


Lh
Intake
1:236 .06mm. ——2.22 ——222 — .14mm
2:236 .05mm—— 2.206——220 —- .15mm
3: 226 .11mm—- 2.1984——219 —- .15mm
4: 23?: .02mm—- 2.0998—-209 —- .15mm

Exhaust
1: 220 .18—-2.0817——208— .25mm
2:220 .18mm— 2.0817—208—-.25mm
3: 224 .16mm —2.0879–208—-.25mm
4: 224 .15mm— 2.071—207—-.25mm

RH
Intake
1: 231 .10mm—-2.233—223 @ .14
2: 230 .11mm—-2.2384–223 @.15
3: 234 .12mm—-2.2938–229@.15
4: 232 .11mm—- 2.2584–225 @.15

Exhaust
1: 223 .17mm—-2.0948——-209 @ .24
2: 226 .18mm—-2.1417——-214@ .24
3: 228 . 13/14mm—-2.0772-207 @ .25
4: 224 .14mm——2.0541—-204 only @ .24

Last edited by jrhudson; 08-12-2021 at 02:24 PM.
jrhudson is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jrhudson For This Useful Post:
NoHaveMSG (08-12-2021)
Old 08-01-2021, 04:39 AM   #2
fableluke
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Drives: BLue 2013 frs
Location: AHHH BEES
Posts: 20
Thanks: 7
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138753

It's hard to see, but the shims SHOULD have markings on there, just difficult to see. You need the right lighting or a good flashlight.
fableluke is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to fableluke For This Useful Post:
jrhudson (08-01-2021)
Old 08-01-2021, 04:47 AM   #3
jrhudson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Drives: 2016 scion frs
Location: ca
Posts: 191
Thanks: 105
Thanked 69 Times in 49 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by fableluke View Post
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138753

It's hard to see, but the shims SHOULD have markings on there, just difficult to see. You need the right lighting or a good flashlight.
Yea thanks, ive seen that. Ive also seen another thread about a user on the site that had my issue and went with the shims that gave him intake ~.15mm and exhaust ~.25mm
jrhudson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2021, 10:39 AM   #4
NoHaveMSG
Senior Member
 
NoHaveMSG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Drives: Crapcan
Location: Oregon
Posts: 7,750
Thanks: 12,008
Thanked 10,954 Times in 4,957 Posts
Mentioned: 60 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhudson View Post
Yea thanks, ive seen that. Ive also seen another thread about a user on the site that had my issue and went with the shims that gave him intake ~.15mm and exhaust ~.25mm

You measure your valve clearance, then you
Can measure shim thickness with calipers. Then add/subtract shim thickness to get the correct clearance.

So if you want .15mm but you have a valve that measures .10mm. You measure the shim and it is 2.45mm. That means you need a 2.40mm shim. You canít just use the shim thickness from somebody elseís build and call it good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
"Experience is the hardest kind of teacher. It gives you the test first and the lesson afterward." -Oscar Wilde.
NoHaveMSG is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to NoHaveMSG For This Useful Post:
Ultramaroon (08-01-2021)
Old 08-05-2021, 10:52 PM   #5
jrhudson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Drives: 2016 scion frs
Location: ca
Posts: 191
Thanks: 105
Thanked 69 Times in 49 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Thanks to @NoHaveMSG, i got to this point.

Ill time the motor tomorrow and to check what shims are needed.
Attached Images
 
jrhudson is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to jrhudson For This Useful Post:
BrahmaBull1990 (08-12-2021), NoHaveMSG (08-06-2021)
Old 08-07-2021, 09:45 PM   #6
jrhudson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Drives: 2016 scion frs
Location: ca
Posts: 191
Thanks: 105
Thanked 69 Times in 49 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Timed and everything is spinning how it should.

Checked all the clearances and they were different from the clearances checked without timing and rotating the crank a few times. I did another check today after rotating the crank another few times to check if they were similar or the same and they were.

I checked the clearances when I first bolted on the block and next day after that. They were at different clearances, i did another check and they were off again.

So it seems to be going the same way as the results in this thread.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139082
Valve jobs or new valves or even machining of the heads will have the valves not seated fully yet. You need to make sure they have seated properly. The way to do that is cranking the rotating assembly. Since the clearances havent changed much or at all, it seems that the valves(hopefully) have seated and given me an accurate measurement.

Now got my measurements and have ordered the shims i need.

After you get your measurements and shim numbers, in the service manual theres a formula to use to get exactly what shims you need based on the clearances and the numbers on the side of the shims.

Intake formula
A =B+(C - D) x 1.54

A - what shim # you need
B - what shim # you have
C - valve clearance you have
D - target valve clearance

Ex) A=2.36 + ( 0.06 - .15) x 1.54

B - 236 shim i have , so it means 2.36mm
C - .06mm of clearances on that valve
D - target of .15mm clearance

A= 2.36 + (-0.09) x 1.54
A= 2.36 + (-0.1386)
A= 2.2214
A= 222 shim required for .15mm clearance on that valve.

Exhaust formula is the same but you multiply by 1.69.

Exhaust formula

A= B + (C - D) x 1.69
Attached Images
 

Last edited by jrhudson; 08-07-2021 at 10:17 PM.
jrhudson is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jrhudson For This Useful Post:
NoHaveMSG (08-07-2021)
Old 08-07-2021, 09:49 PM   #7
jrhudson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Drives: 2016 scion frs
Location: ca
Posts: 191
Thanks: 105
Thanked 69 Times in 49 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Here is the tiny numbers on the side of the shims. They are extremely hard to see and i walked around the garage/outside til i got a good shot of those numbers.
It says 224 btw meaning 2.24mm

It is possible for the numbers to be worn off because i have on that says 23. Theres no shim thats just 2 digits. The numbers are barely visible and theres so sign of the 3rd digit so im guessing.
Attached Images
 
jrhudson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2021, 09:01 PM   #8
jrhudson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Drives: 2016 scion frs
Location: ca
Posts: 191
Thanks: 105
Thanked 69 Times in 49 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
today I've gotten the shims i needed and assembled everything up to the timing. And everything holds around .15mm intake and .25 exhaust. There were a few exceptions that were .14mm and .24mm but thats still good enough.
jrhudson is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jrhudson For This Useful Post:
NoHaveMSG (08-11-2021)
Old 08-11-2021, 09:05 PM   #9
jrhudson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Drives: 2016 scion frs
Location: ca
Posts: 191
Thanks: 105
Thanked 69 Times in 49 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Subaru part numbers and what shim they are. this is not all of them, these are the ones i have found myself.

13218AK970 - 207

13218AL060 - 216

13218AL020 - 212

13218AL080 - 218

13218AK950 - 204

13218AK960 - 206

13218AK940 - 202

13218AL030 - 213

13218AK930 - 200

13218AL070 - 217

13218AL120 -222

13218AL170 - 227

13218AK990 - 209

13218AL190 - 229

13218AL040 - 214

13218AL130 - 223

13218AL150 -225

13218AL200 - 230

13218AL090 - 219

13218AK980 - 208
jrhudson is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jrhudson For This Useful Post:
DarkPira7e (08-12-2021)
Old 08-12-2021, 10:51 AM   #10
BrahmaBull1990
Howdy
 
BrahmaBull1990's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Drives: 2020 BRZ PP
Location: Snohomish, WA
Posts: 589
Thanks: 1,269
Thanked 443 Times in 246 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Mad respect for you gear-heads.
__________________
There's a point at 7,000 RPM... where everything fades. The machine becomes weightless. Just disappears. And all that's left is a body moving through space and time. 7,000 RPM. That's where you meet it. You feel it coming. It creeps up on you, close in your ear. Asks you a question. The only question that matters. Who are you?
BrahmaBull1990 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to BrahmaBull1990 For This Useful Post:
jrhudson (02-17-2022)
Old 08-12-2021, 01:48 PM   #11
DarkPira7e
Yes, my car does run!
 
DarkPira7e's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Drives: 2013 Turbo Firestorm FRS
Location: Vermont
Posts: 3,300
Thanks: 2,494
Thanked 3,207 Times in 1,635 Posts
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Just went through figuring this stuff out, was a real headache. Nice to have it documented somewhere!!!
__________________
Turbo FR-S Build - Build Thread
JDL EL Recirc manifold, Boostlab BL58x Turbo w/ T51R, 17x9 ARC-8, IAG block
DarkPira7e is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DarkPira7e For This Useful Post:
jrhudson (02-17-2022)
Old 08-12-2021, 02:36 PM   #12
jrhudson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Drives: 2016 scion frs
Location: ca
Posts: 191
Thanks: 105
Thanked 69 Times in 49 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkPira7e View Post
Just went through figuring this stuff out, was a real headache. Nice to have it documented somewhere!!!
This is why i updated the thread with any useful info in the simplest terms. It does show this stuff in the service manual but those sometimes make no sense or maybe im too dumb to understand.
jrhudson is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
built block options Breadman Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 15 03-29-2021 12:57 PM
Turbo Built FA20 Clearances elitegunslinger Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 2 12-31-2020 10:26 AM
Crawford Built Short Block texasbound972 Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 26 05-15-2015 03:39 PM
Built B18B Short Block C130NAV Miscellaneous 0 01-04-2014 12:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2022 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.