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Forced Induction Turbo, Supercharger, Methanol, Nitrous


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Old 08-28-2013, 05:50 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Sonolin View Post
Isn't he running injectors at least, at 300whp level?
Thing is I am going for reliability, I was trying to test and prove where that point is. I don't want a car always in the shop.

Nelsmars only mods are injectors, pump, E85. No exhaust, headers or oil cooler.
But any car running over 260HP will need injectors and pump on the FA20.

Thats the point where the duty cycle starts getting maxed out.

One of the main reasons I am staying conservative is because I don't have to mess with any of that. And the car just works well in all conditions.
If you want a rocket then you have to spend more time and money on more supporting mods. But the potential is there.
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Old 08-28-2013, 06:02 PM   #30
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Dezoris for President!
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Old 08-28-2013, 06:14 PM   #31
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Dezoris for President!
That would ruin my approval ratings.
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Old 08-28-2013, 06:32 PM   #32
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Excellent review & video as always @Dezoris. Why "SavageGeese"?
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Old 08-29-2013, 01:24 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by ZionsWrath View Post
Curious what alignment you are running
-1.5 F
-1.3 R

Toe out front 1/8th
Toe in rear 1/16th

Much more than that and street wear suffers.
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Old 08-29-2013, 02:07 AM   #34
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Good video Dezoris. I don't own a Vortech unit but this is very helpful to the FA20 community.
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Old 08-29-2013, 05:24 AM   #35
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The way I have it setup is about 55 HP over stock.
Up from 155HP at the wheels to 212HP.

With the more aggressive map I can make 240HP which is 85HP more.

For track you don't want to be running high timing advance it's too risky, but for street you could run with 85HP extra all day.

How do you feel about that?
I'm surprised by how much HP was lost with the conservative tune. I would have suspected more like 10-15 hp shy of the ragged edge, but 30

I tried Pentosin, and was unimpressed. It still crunched second when cold, and sometimes even when warm.
A Canadian member (can't remember who) posted good things about Redline Lightweight Shockproof. I switched about 500 miles ago, and am happy. Cold is as good as the Pentosin, warm is noticeably better. Living in SoCal, I don't contend with super cold starts. It is rated 75w140, so I would think it OK in the cold, while holding up to high track temps better.
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:40 AM   #36
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In fact until Innovate decides to intercool and offer a proper IAT solution the Vortech is the only supercharger to consider if you plan on daily driving and running at the track reliably without making fuel system changes and adding other cooling solutions.
Just an FYI: A good tuner can calculate the intake temperature after the innovate, its just basic thermo. The concept has been used for years and is explained in Corky Bell's books. There is an IAT sensor solution available for the Innovate for tuners who don't trust adiabatic charts. At +50hp you are adamant that an intercooler is a requirement but you may want to keep an open mind about that. I haven't ruled out the twin screw just yet, the simplicity may prove to be a good thing in the long run.
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Old 08-29-2013, 11:53 AM   #37
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Just an FYI: A good tuner can calculate the intake temperature after the innovate, its just basic thermo. The concept has been used for years and is explained in Corky Bell's books. There is an IAT sensor solution available for the Innovate for tuners who don't trust adiabatic charts. At +50hp you are adamant that an intercooler is a requirement but you may want to keep an open mind about that. I haven't ruled out the twin screw just yet, the simplicity may prove to be a good thing in the long run.
I am getting tired of this argument.

I have yet to be in or see logs on someone car running 91 or 92 octane that has great performance that would be stable on the track.

It wont safely operate under extended load on 91 or 92. You have to run e85 or meth injection along with fuel system upgrades.


I just watched evo4g63s tune and drama with Tony tuning on 91 then switching to e85.
The car was not happy on 91just was not stable.

It went from 190hp to 230 because of fuel. Issue becomes most anyone running this kit hard needs e85 because of cooling and tuning stability. I understand you dont need an IC and it can be tuned around.

But this kit is sold world wide with an intercooler. Ecutek directly said they dont understand why it is being sold without one. Secondly you lose flexibility of running all fuels safely and running e85 kills your mpg dropping you into the 17 to 19mpg range.

You dont have any of these issues with the vortech which is why its the better kit out of the box on all fuels for street and track and it has more over head.

The Innovate with e85 feels great though amazing torque.
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Old 08-30-2013, 06:47 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Dezoris View Post
I am getting tired of this argument.

I have yet to be in or see logs on someone car running 91 or 92 octane that has great performance that would be stable on the track.
.

Wow I won't argue with you but you're basically saying the twin screw alternative is not even road worthy. Guess I'll hold off on FI for a while longer. Hope you keep your car and keep us posted with long term stuff.

I am a bit surprised you consider the stock suspension perfect, I find the front spring rates a tad too low, it translates into a slight uneasiness taking turns thru hills not a big deal but its there. Have you taken a trip thru rural southern Illinois yet?

Thanks again.
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:50 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Dezoris View Post
Thing is I am going for reliability, I was trying to test and prove where that point is. I don't want a car always in the shop.

Nelsmars only mods are injectors, pump, E85. No exhaust, headers or oil cooler.
But any car running over 260HP will need injectors and pump on the FA20.

Thats the point where the duty cycle starts getting maxed out.

One of the main reasons I am staying conservative is because I don't have to mess with any of that. And the car just works well in all conditions.
If you want a rocket then you have to spend more time and money on more supporting mods. But the potential is there.
After looking at your fluids analyses, you're feeling good about running this setup for a long time or are you a little uneasy about the longevity? I know there's been a lot of speculation about how well this transmission will hold up under the added torque of FI. What are your thoughts?
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:08 AM   #40
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Wow I won't argue with you but you're basically saying the twin screw alternative is not even road worthy. Guess I'll hold off on FI for a while longer.
i'm with dezoris on this one. selling an aftermarket blower to people in florida and arizona etc with no intercooler and no provision for an iat is just stupid. they should've just waited and done it right, but they were under pressure to get it out the door.

typically i'd never recommend a centrifugal s/c for any application, i view them as an unnecessary compromise, but in this case it's a no-brainer. if you absolutely must go s/c the vortech is the way to go. the innovate kit just doesn't offer much in terms of power out of the box or breathing room, and it seems rushed to market, missing key pieces that need to be there (ic and iat).

if you drive an innovate car, there's a real good chance someone with an n/a tune on e85 could outrun you in a straight line. you won't have that in a vortech car. isn't that the whole point of fi?

190-220whp doesn't make for a very fast 86.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:29 AM   #41
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I don't mean to thread jack (this is an EXCELLENT insight into SCing and is greatly appreciated btw) but has anyone made such an in-depth review on a particular turbo setup?
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Old 08-30-2013, 12:09 PM   #42
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i'm with dezoris on this one. selling an aftermarket blower to people in florida and arizona etc with no intercooler and no provision for an iat is just stupid. they should've just waited and done it right, but they were under pressure to get it out the door.

typically i'd never recommend a centrifugal s/c for any application, i view them as an unnecessary compromise, but in this case it's a no-brainer. if you absolutely must go s/c the vortech is the way to go. the innovate kit just doesn't offer much in terms of power out of the box or breathing room, and it seems rushed to market, missing key pieces that need to be there (ic and iat).

if you drive an innovate car, there's a real good chance someone with an n/a tune on e85 could outrun you in a straight line. you won't have that in a vortech car. isn't that the whole point of fi?

190-220whp doesn't make for a very fast 86.

I agree except the last sentence , Dezoris's setup is 220hp. To me this is plenty for the street, a bit faster than a stock S2k.

I also have always considered a centr. supercharger a compromise as OEM's never use them, but sounds like vortech has the old issues ironed out.
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