Lightest Stock Size Wheels

[daiheadjai]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

Konig Hypergram?
It's cheaper right now, and might be stronger.
Haven't compared the weight though.

Damn - the Enkeis were still cheaper when I looked at the Hypergrams late last year... I'd have gone Hypergrams otherwise.
Seems the Enkeis are about 2lb lighter for 17x9 (dependent on offset).

And the change in steering feel by going for a more aggressive offset is a great point: I had a set of PF-01s 17x8 +35, and the first thing I noticed was how the new wheels worsened steering feel/responsiveness.

[lostinmysenses]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

Slightly wider track => slightly less lateral weight transfer in corner => slightly more grip.
Also slightly compromised suspension geometry => slight negative impact on steering feedback.
Also arguably better esthetics.

If you don't mind, could you explain the slight negative impact on steering feedback? Would that mean a lighter steering feel with less input feedback?

Also, would there be a benefit to equalizing track width front to rear? For example, running something like +43 in front and +48 at the rear (or +41 and +46 to take advantage of the lower offset limit)?

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by lostinmysenses

If you don't mind, could you explain the slight negative impact on steering feedback? Would that mean a lighter steering feel with less input feedback?

Wider track pushes the wheel outward, adding leverage to all forces acting on the outside edge of the tire, and reducing leverage (or even changing from positive to negative!) to forces action on the inside edge of the tire. Google what "scrub radius" is, there will be pictures to help visualize it.

As an example, there is this nasty area in the "left turn pocket" at one of the intersections near my home where I frequently need to stop on a red light. With stock wheels and tires it's just annoying, but with wider tires on lower offset wheels (et37 in my case) the steering wheel tries to turn left because of those bumps, so I have to hold it while stopping the car.

On the flip side, I know people who have successfully tracked cars with et30 effective offsets and set some very decent lap times :P

Originally Posted by lostinmysenses

Also, would there be a benefit to equalizing track width front to rear? For example, running something like +43 in front and +48 at the rear (or +41 and +46 to take advantage of the lower offset limit)?

Depends on the goals. Not a bad idea to increase the front and rear track equally vs stock, or you can fine tune the balance of the car by using different wheels or spacers.
That being said, perhaps a better strategy would be to maximize grip by maximizing the track width on both ends individually (depending on the regulations, geometry of the car and suspension, tire size, scrub radius considerations, etc.) and then fine-tune the balance with anti-roll bars.

[Lelandjt]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

May I ask why you need lightest wheels possible?

Are you ok to potentially sacrifice the strength of the wheel just trying to chase down the mythical "lightest wheel = fastest acceleration"?
Are you really going to feel the difference of a few % worth the risk of bending the wheel on every pothole?

I don't. There are other considerations but I value lightness and want to be looking at that end of the spectrum. I probably will go with the GR wheels even though they're 17lbs because they can be on the car when I pick it up. Otherwise I have to buy tires and TPMS as well and sell the stock wheels/tires/TPMS.

[Racecomp Engineering]

17 lbs is plenty good.

If I were dailying the lightest wheels possible where I live, I'd be replacing them frequently because roads are that bad.

If I were tracking more often, I'd also have to think about replacing them more frequently. And wheel strength is important on track too (not just weight).

As it is, I use what are essentially tarmac rally wheels which are not the lightest but very strong.

RPF1s are a good all-around choice on the lighter side and should hold up well in a 17 inch size.

- Andrew

[Lelandjt]

Speaking of how offset affects suspension and steering geometry: It's weird that Toyota settled on 48mm for the stock wheels but 43mm for the GR accessory wheels. I get the benefit of wider track. How it lines up with the fender and how it works with the suspension and steering is an unknown but you'd think one would be better than the other in those categories and that's the size Toyota would use.

[lostinmysenses]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

Wider track pushes the wheel outward, adding leverage to all forces acting on the outside edge of the tire, and reducing leverage (or even changing from positive to negative!) to forces action on the inside edge of the tire. Google what "scrub radius" is, there will be pictures to help visualize it.

As an example, there is this nasty area in the "left turn pocket" at one of the intersections near my home where I frequently need to stop on a red light. With stock wheels and tires it's just annoying, but with wider tires on lower offset wheels (et37 in my case) the steering wheel tries to turn left because of those bumps, so I have to hold it while stopping the car.

On the flip side, I know people who have successfully tracked cars with et30 effective offsets and set some very decent lap times :P



Depends on the goals. Not a bad idea to increase the front and rear track equally vs stock, or you can fine tune the balance of the car by using different wheels or spacers.
That being said, perhaps a better strategy would be to maximize grip by maximizing the track width on both ends individually (depending on the regulations, geometry of the car and suspension, tire size, scrub radius considerations, etc.) and then fine-tune the balance with anti-roll bars.

Thanks! That all makes a lot more sense now.

So the drawbacks from a slight change in scrub radius are offset by the benefits of running a wider track (more grip), correct?

That means it would be more beneficial to run the lowest allowed offset (+41) at the front and rear and fine tuning with sway bars?

Just want to make sure I'm understanding correctly.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by lostinmysenses

So the drawbacks from a slight change in scrub radius are offset by the benefits of running a wider track (more grip), correct?

The benefits of running a wider track are objective/measurable, but also small.
The downsides or change in steering feel are subjective.

What's best is thus subjective.

Most people won't actually notice the increased levels of grip, but neither will they notice the change in steering feel from widening the track by just a few mm. They might start noticing at +10mm per side or so.

[daiheadjai]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

The benefits of running a wider track are objective/measurable, but also small.
The downsides or change in steering feel are subjective.

What's best is thus subjective.

Most people won't actually notice the increased levels of grip, but neither will they notice the change in steering feel from widening the track by just a few mm. They might start noticing at +10mm per side or so.

This is very true - I went from the stock +48 ET to +35 ET, and the difference was very noticeable from the moment I pulled out of my parking spot - the car felt comparatively numb. I actually regretted it almost immediately (despite the better looks and grip).
A more conservative shift (like going to +43ET) would probably give you the grip benefits of wider tires, while also maintaining more steering feel.

[aycz86]

Looks like 17x8 +43/+45 is the safe bet for stock suspension then? I was confused on the setup but I just want a little better figment at stock suspension for a while. Going to go 17x8 with either +45 or +43 in a wheel I like wrapped in 225/45r17. Am I missing something here?

[jflogerzi]

Another vote for hypergrams. They have been my track wheels. All has been good and they look better than RPF1s

Sent from my Pixel 5a using Tapatalk

[dalte2]

Originally Posted by Jianlun

Rpf1 17x7.5 et48 silver 6.93kg 3797758048SP
Rpf1 17x8 et45 gold 7.1kg (tyre rack), 7.3kg (oem brochure) 3797808045GG
Tc105x titan 17x7.5 et45 6.8kg
OZ Alleggerita HLT 17x7.5 et48 7kg W0182320176
BBS RF 17X7 et48 6.4kg
BBS RF 17X7.5 et48 6.6kg
Ce28n 17x7.5 et50 6kg
Ce28sl 17x7.5 et48 6.8(unconfirmed)kg
Ssr gtf01 17x7.5 et48 7kg (potentially discontinued?) Sgd630
Advan tc4 17x7.5 et45 7.5kg sgd537

stock is 7.5 et48 so i exercised some +/- hahaha.


your best bet is OZ Alleggerita, many colours avail in tire rack.

I've read somewhere that the 17 OEM wheel is a 45ET on the GR86 and not 48ET which is what the BRZ's have (and 1st gen 86). I suspect what I read may be wrong, but am trying to confirm. Are you 100% sure the 2nd gen GR86 is an ET48 wheel? I autocross and the difference between ET48 and ET45 will dictate if I get a 7mm or 10mm spacer as I intend to get ET48 wheels. In autocross, I can 7mm wider than OEM. So, if OEM is ET45, and my new wheels are ET48, I can go with 10mm spacers. If OEM is ET48, with my new wheels at ET48, I will get the 7mm spacers.

Thank you. Car is due to arrive at dealer next week..... so excited.

[PBR]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

May I ask why you need lightest wheels possible?

Are you ok to potentially sacrifice the strength of the wheel just trying to chase down the mythical "lightest wheel = fastest acceleration"?
Are you really going to feel the difference of a few % worth the risk of bending the wheel on every pothole?

I have the TWS T66-F. It's a proprietary aluminum alloy. Forged & stronger than most other brand's alloys. So you can have your cake & eat it too with this wheel. I'd agree with you for flow formed, etc.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by PBR

I have the TWS T66-F. It's a proprietary aluminum alloy. Forged & stronger than most other brand's alloys. So you can have your cake & eat it too with this wheel.

Sure, strong light wheels do exist (and yes TWS are niiice), but they also cost more than double the price of similar size Enkeis or Konigs.
And you'll need to pay double again if you eventually need replace one or a few due to some unexpected track/highway nastyness.

And will you actually see enough of a performance benefit to justify such a difference in price?