Nissan Sakura - The $14k kei car that sold out in Japan

[Irace86.2.0]

There use to be several EVs that had range under 100 miles that were small and light back in the day (see the video of the Mitsubishi I-MiEV at the bottom). This is basically that for a fraction of the price. The I-MiEV was $30k in 2011 or $40k in 2023, adjusted for inflation, so $14k seems like the right price for this size and range, especially as a first car for teenagers or something. Apparently people think so in Japan, as the car sold out.

Do you think this type of car has a place in the US? Personally, I would love a kei car EV as a daily. I would love to see more small cars and CUVs too like the Honda S660 or Suzuki Jimny.

https://www.theautopian.com/nissans-...electric-cars/

Sales started in May and by July, Nissan reportedly received more than 23,000 Sakura orders. That’s greater than the total number of EVs sold in Japan last year. Let that sink in for a second. Nissan has effectively dominated a segment in its home market by making a small EV that people can actually afford to buy, which is really the key to mass EV adoption across the globe. Yes, even in America.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-...ctric-kei-car/

Mitsubishi I-MiEV

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Do you think this type of car has a place in the US? Personally, I would love a kei car EV as a daily. I would love to see more small cars and CUVs too like the Honda S660 or Suzuki Jimny.

I think they would be a great option. Especially in highly congested areas. I have ridden in quite a few though and I will say, they are extremely cheaply built. I think they would need to upscale the quality of the interior a bit for the US market.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I think they would be a great option. Especially in highly congested areas. I have ridden in quite a few though and I will say, they are extremely cheaply built. I think they would need to upscale the quality of the interior a bit for the US market.

Does Japan have lower standards for interiors than the US? That comes as a surprise to me. Seemed like the interior was getting some praise though. For $14k, you get what you pay for I guess, but that is the point, right? For $14k, you get a lot. I think there is a reason it sold out there. Part of it is because cars are more expensive to own in Japan, but it is enough car for the right price too. If I had teenagers then this is what I would buy them. If I wanted something to putt around town then this would be good too. Maybe a kei truck. Probably super cheap used too. Silly these kei cars don't exist in the states. Mini electric is about 2-2.5 times the price for similar range, better quality, about a foot wider and longer, so not as mini.

[alex87f]

The problems with these cars is always the same:

1. People buy vehicles based on a biased and extreme view of their needs, which this doesn't fulfill
2. From a road safety standpoint, it's hard to have these cohabit with 6 000lbs truck
3. Cars are an image product, for better or -mostly- worse. This isn't.
4. They're tough on western builds. The average Japanese male weighs around 140lbs (60 fewer than the American male). And kei cars are built around their morphology.

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I think they would be a great option. Especially in highly congested areas. I have ridden in quite a few though and I will say, they are extremely cheaply built. I think they would need to upscale the quality of the interior a bit for the US market.

Which makes them more expensive, and no one will buy them :-)

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

Does Japan have lower standards for interiors than the US?

I don't know. I just know everyone I have been in was a rattly mess. Pieces loose or falling apart after a few years.

Originally Posted by alex87f

The problems with these cars is always the same:

1. People buy vehicles based on a biased and extreme view of their needs, which this doesn't fulfill
2. From a road safety standpoint, it's hard to have these cohabit with 6 000lbs truck
3. Cars are an image product, for better or -mostly- worse. This isn't.
4. They're tough on western builds. The average Japanese male weighs around 140lbs (60 fewer than the American male). And kei cars are built around their morphology.



Which makes them more expensive, and no one will buy them :-)

I don't disagree with these points, I think the concept is practical though.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by alex87f

The problems with these cars is always the same:

1. People buy vehicles based on a biased and extreme view of their needs, which this doesn't fulfill
2. From a road safety standpoint, it's hard to have these cohabit with 6 000lbs truck
3. Cars are an image product, for better or -mostly- worse. This isn't.
4. They're tough on western builds. The average Japanese male weighs around 140lbs (60 fewer than the American male). And kei cars are built around their morphology.

Which makes them more expensive, and no one will buy them :-)

1. You mean Americans and not people in general because this vehicle sold out in Japan. Are we really to believe there is zero market for anything this size in the US, especially in an EV format?
2. 6,000 trucks cohabitate with 80,000 18-wheelers to 250lb motorcycles and everything in-between. That doesn't seem to be a problem.
3. Again, it is sold out. Kei cars have their own car culture in Japan. Riders of the Honda Grom here don't seem to be too concerned about its diminutive size. It has a low price of entry into the motorcycle market and offers a good package for the price with bit of a cult following, which is made larger by the fact that they are easy to learn on and make it possible to practice wheeling. Kei cars don't need to be boring, cheap, disengaging, ugly, etc., but I think they would be best as cheaper cars to fill that void in the market.
4. America has a few skinny people remaining that could buy these cars and fit. They don't have to appeal to everyone. Teens would probably fit better, but that adult in the video looks like he has some spare room for his gut. The vehicle does fit four people, and being an EV, the wheelbase can be far more stretched than something requiring ICE.


This Honda S660 Mugen RA wasn't too bad.
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/...-s660-mugen-ra




The GM Baojun Yep EV isn't too bad either.
https://insideevs.com/news/669684/gm...ale-11300-usd/

[Lantanafrs2]

No thanks

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Lantanafrs2

No thanks

I always appreciate your contributions

[Lantanafrs2]

Honored

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

This Honda S660 Mugen RA wasn't too bad.

I'd seen a couple standard S660's when I was over there last. They are really cool cars.

Keep in mind my last experience with a kei car was Jan 2018 and they were average cheap family cars bought for their utility. $14k is expensive in that category. A lot of average kei cars over there are 8-10k from what I remember.

[Dadhawk]

I love the S660, would buy one in a minute.

The Sakura is ugly, and nothing unique about it. Something that size needs to have character. This looks like it was built out of a large freezer box.

Also, the range (for me) is useless. It doesn't even meet my commuting needs. (80 - 100 mile round trip).

[Irace86.2.0]

I think they are going for that Kia Soul or Nissan Cube look. The styling isn't for me, but I think part of the appeal for me for kei/mini cars is just miniature stature and fun of it. I've owned crotch rockets and currently a Ducati, but I found putting around in a Vespa or other scooter on an island entertaining too. Yes, I like my sports car, but I think an EV that is no maintenance and low commitment that putts around town in a small package would be great too like an enclosed golf cart. Most people commute alone for 30-40 miles a day, so something small would be fine; my interior in the BRZ feels huge when I'm all alone.

Small doesn't have to be ugly. I think a Miata and Elise show that small can look good, but really, there are many miniature and kei cars with great designs throughout history. More like this Autobianchi Bianchina or Honda 600. Mobbing around and parking like a boss.




https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-beware.html


http://www.speedhunters.com/2022/02/...ka-auto-messe/

[alex87f]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

1. You mean Americans and not people in general because this vehicle sold out in Japan. Are we really to believe there is zero market for anything this size in the US, especially in an EV format?
2. 6,000 trucks cohabitate with 80,000 18-wheelers to 250lb motorcycles and everything in-between. That doesn't seem to be a problem.
3. Again, it is sold out. Kei cars have their own car culture in Japan. Riders of the Honda Grom here don't seem to be too concerned about its diminutive size. It has a low price of entry into the motorcycle market and offers a good package for the price with bit of a cult following, which is made larger by the fact that they are easy to learn on and make it possible to practice wheeling. Kei cars don't need to be boring, cheap, disengaging, ugly, etc., but I think they would be best as cheaper cars to fill that void in the market.
4. America has a few skinny people remaining that could buy these cars and fit. They don't have to appeal to everyone. Teens would probably fit better, but that adult in the video looks like he has some spare room for his gut. The vehicle does fit four people, and being an EV, the wheelbase can be far more stretched than something requiring ICE.


This Honda S660 Mugen RA wasn't too bad.
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/...-s660-mugen-ra




The GM Baojun Yep EV isn't too bad either.
https://insideevs.com/news/669684/gm...ale-11300-usd/

Don't get me wrong, I think Kei Cars are cool as f*ck.

I was listening to a podcast on sustainable mobility and the guest kept talking about how there should be a means of transportation between a modern car and a bicycle. This is pretty much it.

No one doubts Keis are a success in Japan. But I highly doubt they'd work here. Even there, they've become a sort of sub-culture because of a legal framework that favors them, and has been around for decades. Would the Japanese drive them were they taxed like any other car? I'm not sure.

You could get fiat 500e's (the 1st gen ones) for dirt cheap some years ago, and despite being appropriately sized, cheap and cheerful, it wasn't exactly a resounding success.

A few Japanese makers tried selling "Europeanized" (read: no more cool turbo 660cc engines) versions of their kei cars for a while, and while they weren't a failure, those weren't exactly a great sales success either. They eventually became their own non-kei spinoffs as they were made bigger for the non-Japanese markets.

Back to the original topic, Dacia sells the Spring here, which is a small EV based on petrol third-world Renault cars. 45hp, 70mph top speed, 140-ish miles range, and about 17 grand after 20% sales tax (though also after deducting a 5 000 EUR cash grand from the government). They sell quite decently as a 2nd, commuter-only car.

[Irace86.2.0]

I think with EVs, there is more potential for this market. Why? Because of packaging and power. EV motors are really power dense and sit wonderfully between the axels, so they can put a relatively-torquey, small motor between the wheels with more passenger/leg room. It shouldn't feel like a 600cc motorcycle engine that is struggling to move the vehicle, as an ICE kei car might. The Nissan Sakura EV has about the same horsepower as a Honda S660, but double the torque at 144 ft-lbs. Okay, 0-60 is 9 seconds, so it isn't fast, but that is 2.7 seconds faster than the S660 without the potentially off-putting noise and cheap/clunky transmission. It'll be a little quieter, a little roomier, a little more enjoyable and a little less cheap thanks to the powertrain, low COG and stiffness the battery brings to the chassis.


https://www.topgear.com/car-news/ele...kei-car-masses