Official: Toyota FT-1 Concept / First New Supra Prototype Spotted!

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by fatoni

im also not a fan of the h4 in this application as it sits remarkable far forward in the engine bay. its not a big deal as i feel execution can far outweigh theoretical potential

I want (unrealistic fantasy) to put a Ford/Yamaha 3.4L 60° V8 in my Supra. And twin turbo it.

Shorter, lighter, still narrow so room for turbos.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Dimman

I want (unrealistic fantasy) to put a Ford/Yamaha 3.4L 60° V8 in my Supra. And twin turbo it.

Shorter, lighter, still narrow so room for turbos.

haha see, is that so much to ask for? i think a lot of zealots would hate you but that would be ridiculous in the most awesome way possible.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by fatoni

haha see, is that so much to ask for? i think a lot of zealots would hate you but that would be ridiculous in the most awesome way possible.

Taurus SHO powered Supra... Need more research on the Duratec block it is based on, if the 3.0L V6 version in the Lincoln LS is the same bolt pattern, there may be a longitudinal bellhousing for it...

Also throw around a Camry/Scion tC 2AZ idea. Conservative estimates say 50:50 F:R.

It's a Mk3, no zealots would care. Well maybe a little: 'Why u no JZ???'


The FT1 would be pretty cool with an unconventional engine like a 60° V8, but I'm betting on whatever is in the IS-F.

Twin turbo V6 is just kinda boring...

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Taurus SHO powered Supra... Need more research on the Duratec block it is based on, if the 3.0L V6 version in the Lincoln LS is the same bolt pattern, there may be a longitudinal bellhousing for it...

Also throw around a Camry/Scion tC 2AZ idea. Conservative estimates say 50:50 F:R.

It's a Mk3, no zealots would care. Well maybe a little: 'Why u no JZ???'


The FT1 would be pretty cool with an unconventional engine like a 60° V8, but I'm betting on whatever is in the IS-F.

Twin turbo V6 is just kinda boring...

if i had bothered to look about 5 cm to the left i think i would have caught that. that last part makes a ton of sense though and it wouldnt surprise me

[Levi]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Taurus SHO powered Supra... Need more research on the Duratec block it is based on, if the 3.0L V6 version in the Lincoln LS is the same bolt pattern, there may be a longitudinal bellhousing for it...

Also throw around a Camry/Scion tC 2AZ idea. Conservative estimates say 50:50 F:R.

It's a Mk3, no zealots would care. Well maybe a little: 'Why u no JZ???'


The FT1 would be pretty cool with an unconventional engine like a 60° V8, but I'm betting on whatever is in the IS-F.

Twin turbo V6 is just kinda boring...

Why would you want that? Not sure I'd like a 60° V8. Unconvenitonal in nice, but only when there is a purpose. We can argue on concepts, but execution has to be done right, and right now, I can't think of many cars that are "perfectly" executed, other than the LFA, the 981 and the 991 in both design and technics.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Levi

Why would you want that? Not sure I'd like a 60° V8. Unconvenitonal in nice, but only when there is a purpose. We can argue on concepts, but execution has to be done right, and right now, I can't think of many cars that are "perfectly" executed, other than the LFA, the 981 and the 991 in both design and technics.

The 60° V8 is very compact, the inline 6 motors offer a lot of room for suspension bits, etc...

If Toyota were to do an unconventional engine in the FT1 I would be expecting it for some other purpose like packaging that improves the car.

The H4 in the twins doesn't really do that.

[Boxer486]

H4 doesn't do what....improve the car? Beg to differ. It gives the 86 one of the lowest CoGs in the history of production cars, lower than a Porsche Cayman. You'd have to get something like a Ferrari 458 or new Vette to do better.

The H4 is absolutely critical to the nature of the 86. Whether people like that nature or not is another question.
_________

If you want unconventional, I'd rather have the 5.7L OHV V8 from the Tundra in the Supra than a V6. Apparently already designed to run E85 too. It's already rated to handle 505hp/550lb-ft with the TRD blower. Seems like a good engine candidate to refine for a sports car project.

[Dark]

Unconventional? Twin rotary.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[Levi]

Originally Posted by Dimman

The 60° V8 is very compact, the inline 6 motors offer a lot of room for suspension bits, etc...

If Toyota were to do an unconventional engine in the FT1 I would be expecting it for some other purpose like packaging that improves the car.

The H4 in the twins doesn't really do that.

I don't agree. The GT86 is special because it is the only front engine car rear wheel drive with a boxer engine. I would prefer if the Supra had mid-front Boxer 6. That would be something really unconventional but very good and useful.

[Boxer486]

Originally Posted by Dark

Unconventional? Twin rotary.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Dilithium crystals.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Levi

I don't agree. The GT86 is special because it is the only front engine car rear wheel drive with a boxer engine. I would prefer if the Supra had mid-front Boxer 6. That would be something really unconventional but very good and useful.

It's also part of the reason why the twins have a worse static F:R weight distribution than the Supra, as well as MacStruts vs the Supra's double wishbone.

In this case it is unique, but limits the car's ultimate capabilities.

We will likely see a forced induction, maybe hybrid, 60° V6. They are short and narrow and proven. Just ubiquitous.

I would still prefer a 'common' V6, so long as they go all racecar out on the balance and handling. Rather say a weird but unique V4 or H8 or something that has meh handling.

[Boxer486]

@Dimman

What kind of crack are you smoking? The EJ25 comes in at over 300Lbs and the 2JZGTE comes in over 500lbs! Pretty sure the FA20 weighs less than the EJ25.

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/arc.../t-256433.html

"My complete longblock minus fan and flywheel came it at 524.7LBS."

So how is it possible do you think the FA20 H4 is responsible for a poor F:R ratio especially versus a V6 that has more of everything? That's just utter nonsense.

Look at how much room there is from the back of the block to the Firewall. Obviously if you read the caption, the block is forward because that's where they wanted to put it.



[IMG]http://*************/gallery/data/503/medium/subaru-brz-prologue-3.jpg[/IMG]



The Supra is just longer, heavier overall and more weight to deal with in the rear so it puts up better numbers on a scale. Clearly an H4 would improve the weight distribution dropped in here. Which is why the JGTC Supras in Japan run 3GSTE 4 cylinders for racing.

Are you actually saying you would prefer the handling of a 350z or BMW over the 86 because it's a 50:50 car? I'd say that's crazy and 50:50 being perfectly balanced has always been a marketing myth. 50:50 is great as long as the car is just sitting in your driveway, then you can tell your friends how awesome it handles just sitting there like a lump.

Even if you dropped a K20 in the 86 at 275lbs, the weight distribution would only improve around 1% if you're lucky, and the CoG, LoS over the hood, and possibly ground clearance would get crushed. Is that 1% a big deal really?

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Boxer486

@Dimman

What kind of crack are you smoking? The EJ25 comes in at over 300Lbs and the 2JZGTE comes in over 500lbs! Pretty sure the FA20 weighs less than the EJ25.

http://www.supraforums.com/forum/arc.../t-256433.html

"My complete longblock minus fan and flywheel came it at 524.7LBS."

So how is it possible do you think the FA20 H4 is responsible for a poor F:R ratio especially versus a V6 that has more of everything? That's just utter nonsense.

Look at how much room there is from the back of the block to the Firewall. Obviously if you read the caption, the block is forward because that's where they wanted to put it.



[IMG]http://*************/gallery/data/503/medium/subaru-brz-prologue-3.jpg[/IMG]



The Supra is just longer, heavier overall and more weight to deal with in the rear so it puts up better numbers on a scale. Clearly an H4 would improve the weight distribution dropped in here. Which is why the JGTC Supras in Japan run 3GSTE 4 cylinders for racing.

Are you actually saying you would prefer the handling of a 350z or BMW over the 86 because it's a 50:50 car? I'd say that's crazy and 50:50 being perfectly balanced has always been a marketing myth. 50:50 is great as long as the car is just sitting in your driveway, then you can tell your friends how awesome it handles just sitting there like a lump.

Even if you dropped a K20 in the 86 at 275lbs, the weight distribution would only improve around 1% if you're lucky, and the CoG, LoS over the hood, and possibly ground clearance would get crushed. Is that 1% a big deal really?

Your talking to a guy that daydreams of putting a 2AZFE into a Mk3 to shoot for a 49:51 F:R split. It's not a myth. It's about tire load balance.

What I'm getting at is the engine weight is rather irrelevant if the shape inhibits proper placement. Mk4's manage a 53:47 static without driver, Twins 55:45 same conditions, with a much shorter and lighter motor. There are firewall placement limitations on a FR boxer.

[Levi]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Your talking to a guy that daydreams of putting a 2AZFE into a Mk3 to shoot for a 49:51 F:R split. It's not a myth. It's about tire load balance.

What I'm getting at is the engine weight is rather irrelevant if the shape inhibits proper placement. Mk4's manage a 53:47 static without driver, Twins 55:45 same conditions, with a much shorter and lighter motor. There are firewall placement limitations on a FR boxer.

Engine location is more important than engine configuration. The GT86 is front engine. Were it mid-front engine, it would be one of the best cars out there, and adding turbos would not affect static balance. But this was technically impossible on the Impreza platform. Had the engine been behind the front axle, it would be place even lower and have even lower CoG. Issue is not the engine, but the chassis. In the FT-1 it looks like it hase an even better layout than the Supra, it is like the LFA, SLS, F12, with mid-front engine, hope it also has transaxle transmission.