Burnt Clutch at just 4800 miles!

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by Porsche

That would seem reasonable.

The truth is different, though, which may be worth learning for some of the new manual transmission drivers reading here. There's abuse and then there's ABUSE!

A service manager at a VW dealership related this story. A dad brings his 16-year-old teenage son into the dealership on a Friday to buy him a new GTi.

The kid has never driven a manual gearbox, so someone at the dealership offers to give him a brief driving lesson to familiarize him with the basics.

Dad and kid decline, and they take the new GTi home.

They angrily return on Monday with a burned out clutch disk and a blued flywheel. It lasted just one weekend.

Surprisingly, VW generously offered to replace the parts, but the owner had to pay for the labor. But, only this once, naturally.

It is quite possible to destroy a clutch (and the flywheel via over-heating) in a mere weekend of abuse. The kid must have gone berserk, though, don't you think?

Expensive lesson to learn.

I sold my fairly heavily modified E46 M3 to a guy who had never driven clutch before. He managed to destroy the clutch in less than a week and called me up to tell me. He said he had been practicing on hills.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

The clutch on the OEM car should be able to survive several AutoX and Track days if not ABUSED! as Porsche's story describes, only the OP really knows if he fried it on his own or not, which may be why he's willing to shell out this time.

I have been using the same OEM clutch in my racecar for 5 years now with about 7 track weekends per year on it and it works great. The most wear is put on a clutch during the first gear launch that happens when you are daily driving the car. I gotta agree with some of the other posters that I think his hydraulics or the clutch itself failed. I doubt this is abuse or wear, and I think the warranty should cover it. That is why I want to see pics of this supposed "abused" clutch.

[pche]

Not that difficult to kill a clutch. Had a kid with a WRX that his parents bought him with destroyed 1st and 2nd gear, wiped out flywheel and clutch and a broken pressure plate. Car had 400 some miles on it. The kid admitted to "launching" his car at school parking lot to show off. Subaru paid for everything, I had to do it for 1/3 of labor time. Not saying that's what the OP did, just saying that it does happen.

[FastOnFastOff]

Originally Posted by Malt

I'm not making any claims to the reason it got fried, just that it looks extremely suspicious that on his very first track day ever the clutch gets fried. Its unfortunate that it happened, but at least he's doing the right thing and paying for it out of pocket. What is unfortunate is that he took it to a dealership and now he's going to end up with another stock clutch and flywheel. He could of had a better clutch and lightened flywheel for not that much more money.

Absolutely...I don't have much of a story to back up the situation. I drove the car hard through the canyons many times (maybe 15?) and did a track day at WSIR once. The Primacy's alone look obviously track-shredded. I thought a car like this could deal with hard driving. Like I said before, I've been driving manual transmissions a loooong time and this is a first. Maybe it was ABUSE like Porsche suggested, but I've known other guys to SERIOUSLY ABUSE their trannys with no issues. The best that'll come out of this is that at the very least we have place like these forums to document these mechanical issues.

Also, I would've taken it to my mechanic in Irvine (PM me if you need a good one in SoCal) but I was overconfident about this being a warranty fix. A non-OEM clutch and flywheel would be sweet, but I'm also leasing the car. Anyway, folks, I really appreciated the feedback. I'll keep you guys posted as to what they say was the specific cause of the fried clutch. They'll say it was cuz of my driving probably.

They called me and my car should be ready by 4pm.

Oh, and another question for you guys regarding TSB's as posted here:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21868

Are the dealerships required to repair all TSB's under warranty - no cost to the owner? If someone could clearly explain how all this works, I'd appreciate it. Because if the dealer's gonna work on my car, I'll make sure they work on everything possible. Like the crickets, for example.

Once again, THANKS!!

[Malt]

A leased car, well that explains not getting an aftermarket clutch and flywheel.

I can tell you that coming from a guy that had THREE transmissions and two clutches replaced under warranty in a 2002 WRX I'm honestly surprised that they wouldn't even give you a good will replacement on the first one.

I was tracking my car. I made no secrets about it and on the third transmission they told me that the next one was on me. Luckily I had just gotten a guaranteed trade up letter from Subaru and traded in that WRX for an STi. The 02 WRX transmissions were notoriously shit though.

If indeed it turns out to be a hydraulic issue then you might have a chance but if they have any idea that you were on a track when it happend, be prepared for the worst. (which it looks like you already are)

Best of luck!

[FastOnFastOff]

Got the car back. Really, I'm just not in a position to make a stink over their not covering the clutch on the warranty. Time being the main factor. My own mechanical ignorance being another. The bill was $1400. I bit the bullet, but asked to speak with someone about the problem.

I spoke with one of the service techs at Auto Nation named Brian. My service rep was a woman named Terri. When speaking to the tech, he said a lot of technical jargon about the components of the clutch...in other words, he explained how a clutch works. He too was baffled by the problem and couldn't provide a straight and clear explanation other than the likely cause of the clutch burning out was due to "rapidly releasing the clutch at high rpm's". I told them outright that I do drive the car hard...canyons, one track day, etc. At the same time, I honestly don't believe I was ABUSING the clutch to no end and for sure do not rapidly release the clutch to chirp the wheels or whatever. I don't drag race, drift, nor do I ride the clutch. In fact the tech said that even riding the clutch wouldn't cause the problem. So I'm still pretty unclear as to what really caused all this heartache.

Again, at best, we have this situation documented should this happen to somebody else. Sorry about the second photo...dunno why it uploaded sideways...but it provides a vague, ambiguous report. (I'm trying to get the mechanic to email me more pic's from his phone.)

All in all, I'm glad to have the car back after five days. For as many issues I've had with the vehicle in just 4800 miles and 4 months of driving (including crashing it), I still LOVE THE 86!! The $16,000 question is: Will I still love it after the 3 yr/36K mile lease ends...enough to purchase it at that point?

[20valvewynn83]

A clutch is considered a wear item and is not covered under warranty but as a Toyota technician I highly recommend you bitch and complain to corporate and just make sure you are upset over the issue. As for the $1600 goes if you pay it they will most likely charge you about ($750)5-6 hours of labor plus the clutch kit, bearing (guess $400) trans fluid (guess $150) and resurface of the flywheel ($120). So it should be closer to $1420.

[FirestormFRS]

Originally Posted by fistpoint

No they didn't. The software was found to be riddled with inefficiencies and bad/lazy programming. Do some more reading into it.

You're referring to the most educated engineers, programmers, and other technicians that investigated the space shuttle issues? Cause yeah they found nothing wrong with the electronics. The DOT found nothing wrong with the electronics. Every independent investigation found nothing wrong with the electronics.

The only defects found were in the pedal assembly which was marginal at best. The guy that died in the Lexus had floor mats stacked on top of the factory floor mats. Read more please.....

[sc0urge]

Originally Posted by FastOnFastOff

Got the car back. Really, I'm just not in a position to make a stink over their not covering the clutch on the warranty. Time being the main factor. My own mechanical ignorance being another. The bill was $1400. I bit the bullet, but asked to speak with someone about the problem.

I spoke with one of the service techs at Auto Nation named Brian. My service rep was a woman named Terri. When speaking to the tech, he said a lot of technical jargon about the components of the clutch...in other words, he explained how a clutch works. He too was baffled by the problem and couldn't provide a straight and clear explanation other than the likely cause of the clutch burning out was due to "rapidly releasing the clutch at high rpm's". I told them outright that I do drive the car hard...canyons, one track day, etc. At the same time, I honestly don't believe I was ABUSING the clutch to no end and for sure do not rapidly release the clutch to chirp the wheels or whatever. I don't drag race, drift, nor do I ride the clutch. In fact the tech said that even riding the clutch wouldn't cause the problem. So I'm still pretty unclear as to what really caused all this heartache.

Again, at best, we have this situation documented should this happen to somebody else. Sorry about the second photo...dunno why it uploaded sideways...but it provides a vague, ambiguous report. (I'm trying to get the mechanic to email me more pic's from his phone.)

All in all, I'm glad to have the car back after five days. For as many issues I've had with the vehicle in just 4800 miles and 4 months of driving (including crashing it), I still LOVE THE 86!! The $16,000 question is: Will I still love it after the 3 yr/36K mile lease ends...enough to purchase it at that point?

Sorry to hear what happened. Thanks for sharing and updating us.

[pche]

Originally Posted by FastOnFastOff

~Snip~

Are the dealerships required to repair all TSB's under warranty - no cost to the owner? If someone could clearly explain how all this works, I'd appreciate it. Because if the dealer's gonna work on my car, I'll make sure they work on everything possible. Like the crickets, for example.

Once again, THANKS!!

Only if the concern can be verified and duplicated. Get people come in all the time with every single TSB they can find and request to have all the fixes performed, most of the time their cars already have the counter measured parts installed.

If you had a BRZ a Subaru dealer would most likely covered it, I know mine would.

ETA: HOLY BALLS!!! Just read your receipt, looks like they charged you over 10 hours of labor?? Or are labor rates just higher in CA? Labor cost would've been at around 600 at my shop. Looks like its only the minimum was replaced, didn't even get a new flywheel. From the parts replaced looks like you had a failed pressure plate that took out the clutch disc.

[FastOnFastOff]

Originally Posted by pche

If you had a BRZ a Subaru dealer would most likely covered it, I know mine would.

Yeah, I'm hearing a lot of positive feedback about Subaru and their warranty coverage. Malt said he had a 3 trannies and 2 clutches replaced under warranty on his WRX...that's insanely awesome! I mentioned before that an attorney told me that Toyota is a "difficult company to litigate" because of their "arrogance in believing they don't make defective cars". If there's any truth to that, the attitude sure trickled down to Auto Nation Toyota Irvine in Orange County, CA.

When my lease ends, I just might have to bail on Toyota and head over to Subaru.

[FastOnFastOff]

Originally Posted by 20valvewynn83

A clutch is considered a wear item and is not covered under warranty but as a Toyota technician I highly recommend you bitch and complain to corporate and just make sure you are upset over the issue. As for the $1600 goes if you pay it they will most likely charge you about ($750)5-6 hours of labor plus the clutch kit, bearing (guess $400) trans fluid (guess $150) and resurface of the flywheel ($120). So it should be closer to $1420.

Yup, the final cost was right around $1400.

[sirsol66]

One suggestion, next time try another dealership, or call corporate. I know of at least 2 other cars that had a clutch failure like yours, and their repairs were covered. It might be still worth your time to call corporate, as hopefully whoever you talk to sees more of a "big picture" than your local dealership.

Hint for everyone: If you're sure the failure was not caused by you, ask for the regional rep. He can judge something like this much better than the dealership tech.

[Suberman]

Originally Posted by FastOnFastOff

Got the car back. Really, I'm just not in a position to make a stink over their not covering the clutch on the warranty. Time being the main factor. My own mechanical ignorance being another. The bill was $1400. I bit the bullet, but asked to speak with someone about the problem.

I spoke with one of the service techs at Auto Nation named Brian. My service rep was a woman named Terri. When speaking to the tech, he said a lot of technical jargon about the components of the clutch...in other words, he explained how a clutch works. He too was baffled by the problem and couldn't provide a straight and clear explanation other than the likely cause of the clutch burning out was due to "rapidly releasing the clutch at high rpm's". I told them outright that I do drive the car hard...canyons, one track day, etc. At the same time, I honestly don't believe I was ABUSING the clutch to no end and for sure do not rapidly release the clutch to chirp the wheels or whatever. I don't drag race, drift, nor do I ride the clutch. In fact the tech said that even riding the clutch wouldn't cause the problem. So I'm still pretty unclear as to what really caused all this heartache.

Again, at best, we have this situation documented should this happen to somebody else. Sorry about the second photo...dunno why it uploaded sideways...but it provides a vague, ambiguous report. (I'm trying to get the mechanic to email me more pic's from his phone.)

All in all, I'm glad to have the car back after five days. For as many issues I've had with the vehicle in just 4800 miles and 4 months of driving (including crashing it), I still LOVE THE 86!! The $16,000 question is: Will I still love it after the 3 yr/36K mile lease ends...enough to purchase it at that point?

That's NOT a burned clutch. That's a defective clutch plate. The linings show no signs of heat damage, they just disintegrated.

Jeez, I cannot believe your dealership is pulling that crap. Those clutch linings look BRAND NEW just as you'd expect after only 4,800 miles. That clutch isn't even broken in yet.

Total, total bull crap. Claim your warranty. If Toyota refuses to pay put the pictures in a local newspaper.

Oh, yes, and another thing those labour charges are fraudulent. No way it costs that kind of money to drop a tranny off the back of a rwd boxer engine.


That just has to be covered by warranty. I've never seen such a piece of crap!

Anybody? Anybody thinks that's a normal clutch plate ?