GR 86: Orders /Reservation /Waitlist Chat

[TheDonEffect]

Pearls aren't just a name but are actually a three stage paint vs two. For instance the dc2 Integra black was called black pearl but was not an actual pearl paint.
Alot of modern white paints are pearl since adding the metallic would likely change the color (check out Mazda ceramic color for reference of a white metallic that's not a pearl). Every now and then you see a red orange or blue but generally they're not pearls, as are all colors without metallic flake such as the blue above. Trueno, Neptune, em1 civic si, dodge viper, etc etc etc blue aren't pearls.

[fredzy]

A dealer I worked with in the past is giving me dibs on a Halo PMT allocation @ $35,500. If it were MSRP I might consider it but nah. Pittsburgh area.

I'm waiting on a PM from another guy to see if he wants it, but if I don't hear in a day or two I'll forward on whoever here may be interested.

[Robertw]

Originally Posted by drivejumpfly

I am not going to name dealership names yet, because there are some legal things I am still dealing with, but I had a similar issue with a dealership. Put down a sizable deposit with an agreement to purchase with a very very high markup for a car that was allocated and shortly on a ship. The day the car arrived at the dealership I get a call to actually do paperwork for financing. I asked to start the process earlier but they said not until the car came in. They presented me with pricing that included a markup that was 50% higher than my already agreed on markup, and when I told them I was not paying that they all of a sudden could not do a deal.

I passed up several offers that were cheaper than my deal because I was going to stick to my deposit. I have since reported the dealership to Toyota Corporate and received a response. I have also dealt with more than one dealership that quoted me a markup over the phone, and when the papers arrive they are thousands more than the markup price because of their nonsense add-ons.

I initially said I would give these "bad-talked about online" dealerships a chance to prove me wrong. At this point screw them all! I hope the rest of you with multiple deposits keep them in and when you get your keys in your hand you fight the rest of the dealers to very end for your refund. You are not doing anything worse than what they will do when your car finally arrives. I am historically a very proud Toyota owner, but I think I am quitting the race to get a GR86.

Would have been a very fun car from what I hear, but I'll enjoy another brand's fun car until the next fun car is released. Or maybe one of those "I'll talk to my manager guys" will have another deal fall through that is actually reasonable. I'm not holding my breathe. And no, I am still not touching a BRZ.

Some people in here will defend the dealership and blame consumers.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Robertw

Some people in here will defend the dealership and blame consumers.

And some are not bright enough to see that there are different scenarios some of which do indeed place the blame on the dealers.

[Robertw]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

If you had an agreed deal on price (hopefully written) and a deposit and the dealer backed out, the dealer is shitty, in the wrong, and hopefully you have some recourse.

What recourse?

Originally Posted by Tcoat

And some are not bright enough to see that there are different scenarios some of which do indeed place the blame on the dealers.

I just found it interesting seeing the outrage here when the "blame" is on consumers, and the general crickets when the blame is on the dealer. That's all.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Robertw

What recourse?

Assuming there was a written agreement, you have a legally binding document but, in all honesty, would it be worth the effort to pursue it?

[Robertw]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Assuming there was a written agreement, you have a legally binding document but, in all honesty, would it be worth the effort to pursue it?

Exactly, and the dealers know that, so they do as they please.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Robertw

What recourse?



I just found it interesting seeing the outrage here when the "blame" is on consumers, and the general crickets when the blame is on the dealer. That's all.

The blame that I have placed on the consumers is that they support markups by actually paying them.

Breach of contract when there was a written agreement that we see in the cited case is clearly on the dealer. On the other hand he did already agree to pay a "very very high" markup so he opened the door for them to try for even more.

All the people with orders at several dealers are also inflating the perceived demand for the car which forces the prices up even more.

All in all both parties are responsible.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by Robertw

I just found it interesting seeing the outrage here when the "blame" is on consumers, and the general crickets when the blame is on the dealer. That's all.

No - what you didn't like was that we didn't immediately support you and call the dealer scum when your facts didn't support it.

Specifically, here's what happened to you: (1) the dealer told you what the deal would be upfront; (2) came up with the car and the deal they promised you (not at all the case with drivejumpfly); (3) but wouldn't budge on the markup they TOLD YOU they were going to charge - but used the word negotiable - when they knew they had three others in line that were willing to pay that markup.

You could have easily paid the markup that was exactly within the range the dealer told you it was going to be. It was not the high number; it was not the low number. It was "negotiated" in the middle. It's not the dealer's fault that in your head the word "negotiable" meant they would remove the markup all together when the car arrived.

Seriously, dude. You can't really think that what happened to you and what happened to drivejumpfly are the same thing.

[Robertw]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

No - what you didn't like was that we didn't immediately support you and call the dealer scum when your facts didn't support it.

Specifically, here's what happened to you: (1) the dealer told you what the deal would be upfront; (2) came up with the car and the deal they promised you (not at all the case with drivejumpfly); (3) but wouldn't budge on the markup they TOLD YOU they were going to charge - but used the word negotiable - when they knew they had three others in line that were willing to pay that markup.

You could have easily paid the markup that was exactly within the range the dealer told you it was going to be. It was not the high number; it was not the low number. It was "negotiated" in the middle. It's not the dealer's fault that in your head the word "negotiable" meant they would remove the markup all together when the car arrived.

Seriously, dude. You can't really think that what happened to you and what happened to drivejumpfly are the same thing.

Um, I didn’t make any deals agreeing to markups on any car, you may have me confused with someone else…lol Simmer down, emotions getting the best of you.

[Robertw]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The blame that I have placed on the consumers is that they support markups by actually paying them.

Breach of contract when there was a written agreement that we see in the cited case is clearly on the dealer. On the other hand he did already agree to pay a "very very high" markup so he opened the door for them to try for even more.

All the people with orders at several dealers are also inflating the perceived demand for the car which forces the prices up even more.

All in all both parties are responsible.

Wait wait wait, so when a customer and dealer come to an agreement on a markup, the car arrives, and the dealer raises the markup, both parties are at fault?

But when both parties agree to a non refundable deposit, but the buyer backs out and wants a refund and the dealership says no deal, it’s just the customers fault? That was your argument earlier.

Agreements were signed in both cases…so I think the dealer is also at fault for offering non refundable deposits.

At least I’ve been consistent with my position.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Robertw

Wait wait wait, so when a customer and dealer come to an agreement on a markup, the car arrives, and the dealer raises the markup, both parties are at fault?

But when both parties agree to a non refundable deposit, but the buyer backs out and wants a refund and the dealership says no deal, it’s just the customers fault? That was your argument earlier.

Agreements were signed in both cases…so I think the dealer is also at fault for offering non refundable deposits.

At least I’ve been consistent with my position.

That is not what I said.
Each case can be different.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by Robertw

Um, I didn’t make any deals agreeing to markups on any car, you may have me confused with someone else…lol Simmer down, emotions getting the best of you.

Yes - thought you were juenedgi. You are just the guy who called "non-refundable" deposits a scam and defended what you believe is your inalienable right to put down "refundable" deposits wherever, whenever you want and waste as much dealer employee time as possible with no remorse.

With respect to your points, all I have ever said is I can understand a dealership employing refundable and non-refundable deposit strategies as well as having markups whenever they want - particularly in these market conditions. I have also said a buyer should beware, make sure they get everything in writing, choose to deal with whatever dealer they want, and choose to pay whatever they are willing to pay without getting butthurt if a particular dealer isn't willing to meet their demands.

In any event, it appears drivejumpfly ran up against a dealer that basically went back on a written agreement. I agree - THAT Dealer is scum. That doesn't mean all dealers are scum (even ones that charge markup or have "non-refundable" deposits).

And as Tcoat has pointed out, people that run around placing deposits at multiple dealers (ahem...) are indirectly responsible for what is going on and they should acknowlege that.

[Robertw]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

Yes - thought you were juenedgi. You are just the guy who called "non-refundable" deposits a scam and defended what you believe is your inalienable right to put down "refundable" deposits wherever, whenever you want and waste as much dealer employee time as possible with no remorse.

With respect to your points, all I have ever said is I can understand a dealership employing refundable and non-refundable deposit strategies as well as having markups whenever they want - particularly in these market conditions. I have also said a buyer should beware, make sure they get everything in writing, choose to deal with whatever dealer they want, and choose to pay whatever they are willing to pay without getting butthurt if a particular dealer isn't willing to meet their demands.

In any event, it appears drivejumpfly ran up against a dealer that basically went back on a written agreement. I agree - THAT Dealer is scum. That doesn't mean all dealers are scum (even ones that charge markup or have "non-refundable" deposits).

And as Tcoat has pointed out, people that run around placing deposits at multiple dealers (ahem...) are indirectly responsible for what is going on and they should acknowlege that.

I’ve read a lot of preaching “you signed a written agreement”, or “get the agreement in writing” like it means anything, meanwhile folks like you and tcoat fail to recognize that these written agreements only mean anything when it’s to the dealerships benefit. As soon as a dealer smells a better opportunity, they take it, regardless of what they signed.

You also never answered my question, what recourse is there when a dealership backs out of signed agreement?